2 objects with identical coordinate numbers appearing in completely different places #84147

New Issue

Viktors · 2020-12-26T10:58:31+01:00

Viktors commented

2020-12-26 10:58:31 +01:00

System Information
Operating system: win 10 pro
Graphics card: r9 360

Blender Version
Broken: 2.7-2.9+
Worked: Never

Short description of error
infinite ammounts of objects sharing excatly the same coordinates, but not one of those objects is located in the coordinates.

Exact steps for others to reproduce the error
Spawn a cube. Move it 10 meters on X axis. Dublicate the object as many times as you wish.
Make another object to be used as parent. Move the parent to random location, then add first cube, move parent to random location, add second cube, and so on and on, till you have all the objects sharing excatly the same coordinates, they all will be 10 meters away from something, not sure what, but they will be.
Blender doesnt show local positions or global positions, but whatever the garbage it shows is, its broken and unusable.
If you think its usable, without any modifications, tell me local or global location to cube.013. Or any useful information about the cube 013's location. The parent, which is sphere is located at (6.29178 m, -1.46316 m,-2.92347 m)

bug.blend

**System Information** Operating system: win 10 pro Graphics card: r9 360 **Blender Version** Broken: 2.7-2.9+ Worked: Never **Short description of error** infinite ammounts of objects sharing excatly the same coordinates, but not one of those objects is located in the coordinates. **Exact steps for others to reproduce the error** Spawn a cube. Move it 10 meters on X axis. Dublicate the object as many times as you wish. Make another object to be used as parent. Move the parent to random location, then add first cube, move parent to random location, add second cube, and so on and on, till you have all the objects sharing excatly the same coordinates, they all will be 10 meters away from something, not sure what, but they will be. Blender doesnt show local positions or global positions, but whatever the garbage it shows is, its broken and unusable. If you think its usable, without any modifications, tell me local or global location to cube.013. Or any useful information about the cube 013's location. The parent, which is sphere is located at (6.29178 m, -1.46316 m,-2.92347 m)![unknown.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F9530763/unknown.png) [bug.blend](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F9530765/bug.blend)

Viktors commented

2020-12-26 10:58:31 +01:00

Added subscriber: @DageLV

Simon Sommer commented

2020-12-26 11:53:19 +01:00

Added subscriber: @CreatorSiSo

Simon Sommer commented

2020-12-26 11:53:19 +01:00

The objects are not 10 meters away from something they just stay in the same relation to the parent object.

Simon Sommer commented

2020-12-26 11:58:17 +01:00

I dont really understand your problem it would be nice if you could try and explain how you think that parenting works.

Simon Sommer commented

2020-12-26 12:07:00 +01:00

And the location of cube.013 is X=4.08938 m Y=-6.3372 m Z=-5.76471 m (Go to object mode>select cube.013>press[shift+s]>cursor to selected (or press- [x])>press- [x]>View>3D Cursor or edit mode>press[shift+a]>press- [x]>Item>Median)

Simon Sommer commented

2020-12-26 12:07:38 +01:00

Changed status from 'Needs Triage' to: 'Needs User Info'

Yevgeny Makarov commented

2020-12-26 13:10:22 +01:00

Added subscriber: @jenkm

Yevgeny Makarov commented

2020-12-26 13:10:22 +01:00

@CreatorSiSo - And the location of cube.013 is X=4.08938 m Y=-6.3372 m Z=-5.76471 m ...

But the UI shows 10m 0 0, maybe this is the complaint?

> @CreatorSiSo - And the location of cube.013 is X=4.08938 m Y=-6.3372 m Z=-5.76471 m ... But the UI shows `10m 0 0`, maybe this is the complaint?

Jean First commented

2020-12-26 14:25:41 +01:00

Added subscriber: @robbott

Jean First commented

2020-12-26 14:25:41 +01:00

I'd say it's a known issue / feature / bug. See https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/dev/scene_layout/object/editing/parent.html?highlight=parent%20inverse#parent-inverse

And for more context: https://devtalk.blender.org/t/reevaluating-worldspace-and-localspace-treatment-need-some-dev-triage/9665

I'd say it's a known issue / feature / bug. See https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/dev/scene_layout/object/editing/parent.html?highlight=parent%20inverse#parent-inverse And for more context: https://devtalk.blender.org/t/reevaluating-worldspace-and-localspace-treatment-need-some-dev-triage/9665

Viktors commented

2020-12-26 14:38:36 +01:00

In #84147#1082283, @CreatorSiSo wrote:
The objects are not 10 meters away from something they just stay in the same relation to the parent object.

no. The parent object is sphere. and all 19 cubes are in excatly to the same relation. 10 meters away from something. im not sure what, from world center? From the sphere? i dont know.

In #84147#1082284, @CreatorSiSo wrote:
I dont really understand your problem it would be nice if you could try and explain how you think that parenting works.

Open 3ds max, open unity, open any other program which involves transforms. if you have sphere 3m on X axis , a child cube 10 meters away from sphere, the transform will say its 10 meters away or 13, based on if it uses local or transforms. In blender it says once upon a time this object was positioned in the world axis 10 meters away from center of the world. Now its somewhere unknown.

In #84147#1082285, @CreatorSiSo wrote:
And the location of cube.013 is X=4.08938 m Y=-6.3372 m Z=-5.76471 m (Go to object mode>select cube.013>press[shift+s]>cursor to selected (or press- [x])>press- [x]>View>3D Cursor or edit mode>press[shift+a]>press- [x]>Item>Median)

Thats not a solution tho. Its just going around the issue. If i were to do this, each time i wanted to check if my wheel is located excatly the distance i need it to be located and had to do this, i should make a youtube tutorial for myself to follow to.
Unless you have a conversion formula which doesnt involve having a time machine which i could just quickly snap in, get the current actual coordinates of the object?

In #84147#1082313, @jenkm wrote:
But the UI shows 10m 0 0, maybe this is the complaint?

yes it is. The inacuracity of the ui. It makes no sense. It shows where the object was before parenting, not where it is located according to parented object or on world axis, and it doesnt even have the option to switch to it, so sometimes ill see that all the models are where i need them to, then make a change and the objects will be moved by small amount because blender doesnt keep the location of objects by default, if the movement is small enough, like 0.1 meters, i wont know it maybe till days later.

In #84147#1082338, @robbott wrote:
I'd say it's a known issue / feature / bug. See https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/dev/scene_layout/object/editing/parent.html?highlight=parent%20inverse#parent-inverse

And for more context: https://devtalk.blender.org/t/reevaluating-worldspace-and-localspace-treatment-need-some-dev-triage/9665

yes, it is old, but there is no way to fix it, for the user.

> In #84147#1082283, @CreatorSiSo wrote: > The objects are not 10 meters away from something they just stay in the same relation to the parent object. no. The parent object is sphere. and all 19 cubes are in excatly to the same relation. 10 meters away from something. im not sure what, from world center? From the sphere? i dont know. > In #84147#1082284, @CreatorSiSo wrote: > I dont really understand your problem it would be nice if you could try and explain how you think that parenting works. Open 3ds max, open unity, open any other program which involves transforms. if you have sphere 3m on X axis , a child cube 10 meters away from sphere, the transform will say its 10 meters away or 13, based on if it uses local or transforms. In blender it says once upon a time this object was positioned in the world axis 10 meters away from center of the world. Now its somewhere unknown. > In #84147#1082285, @CreatorSiSo wrote: > And the location of cube.013 is X=4.08938 m Y=-6.3372 m Z=-5.76471 m (Go to object mode>select cube.013>press[shift+s]>cursor to selected (or press- [x])>press- [x]>View>3D Cursor or edit mode>press[shift+a]>press- [x]>Item>Median) Thats not a solution tho. Its just going around the issue. If i were to do this, each time i wanted to check if my wheel is located excatly the distance i need it to be located and had to do this, i should make a youtube tutorial for myself to follow to. Unless you have a conversion formula which doesnt involve having a time machine which i could just quickly snap in, get the current actual coordinates of the object? > In #84147#1082313, @jenkm wrote: > But the UI shows `10m 0 0`, maybe this is the complaint? yes it is. The inacuracity of the ui. It makes no sense. It shows where the object was before parenting, not where it is located according to parented object or on world axis, and it doesnt even have the option to switch to it, so sometimes ill see that all the models are where i need them to, then make a change and the objects will be moved by small amount because blender doesnt keep the location of objects by default, if the movement is small enough, like 0.1 meters, i wont know it maybe till days later. > In #84147#1082338, @robbott wrote: > I'd say it's a known issue / feature / bug. See https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/dev/scene_layout/object/editing/parent.html?highlight=parent%20inverse#parent-inverse > > And for more context: https://devtalk.blender.org/t/reevaluating-worldspace-and-localspace-treatment-need-some-dev-triage/9665 yes, it is old, but there is no way to fix it, for the user.

Viktors commented

2020-12-26 14:44:21 +01:00

i cant immagine how blender came to this, did they gave the software to testers and most of them just said "Well, its good, but you know when you parent an object which isnt at 0,0,0 location? Yeah. About that. We dont really care, i dont think anyone cares where the object is now, but what we care for is where the object was before parenting, and yes, once you unparent, the object should snap to its original place by default"

Simon Sommer commented

2020-12-26 15:33:39 +01:00

Well then i would say its not a bug but a missing feature and if u want it in blender either go and like the proposal on rightclickselect or code it yourself and submit it. ;)

Well then i would say its not a bug but a missing feature and if u want it in blender either go and like the proposal on [rightclickselect ](https://blender.community/c/rightclickselect/hLdbbc/) or code it yourself and submit it. ;)

Viktors commented

2020-12-26 17:56:47 +01:00

its a bug tho.

Simon Sommer commented

2020-12-26 18:23:23 +01:00

In #84147#1082370, @DageLV wrote:
its a bug tho.

No because the feature is simply not implemented.

> In #84147#1082370, @DageLV wrote: > its a bug tho. No because the feature is simply not implemented.

Evan Wilson commented

2020-12-26 23:05:15 +01:00

Added subscriber: @EAW

Evan Wilson commented

2020-12-26 23:05:15 +01:00

This might fall under #80490 (Child Object jumps away with changing the parent bone) which has been labeled a design task to implement the showing of the inverse parent matrix in the UI.

Simon Sommer commented

2020-12-27 14:09:33 +01:00

In #84147#1082409, @EAW wrote:
This might fall under #80490 (Child Object jumps away with changing the parent bone) which has been labeled a design task to implement the showing of the inverse parent matrix in the UI.

Yeah I guess we can close this task as a duplicate then right?

> In #84147#1082409, @EAW wrote: > This might fall under #80490 (Child Object jumps away with changing the parent bone) which has been labeled a design task to implement the showing of the inverse parent matrix in the UI. Yeah I guess we can close this task as a duplicate then right?

Yevgeny Makarov commented

2020-12-27 14:50:43 +01:00

Removed subscriber: @jenkm

Evan Wilson commented

2020-12-27 15:44:09 +01:00

Added subscriber: @dr.sybren

Evan Wilson commented

2020-12-27 15:44:09 +01:00

@CreatorSiSo I am going to wait until I get @dr.sybren’s feedback on renaming #80490 and updating its description, or instead the possibility of creating a new specifically named design task that both this and that report can be merged into.

As #80490 is currently named and described, I think merging this task might lead to the specific issue this report describes getting lost/overlooked.

@dr.sybren thoughts on what you would like done?

@CreatorSiSo I am going to wait until I get @dr.sybren’s feedback on renaming #80490 and updating its description, or instead the possibility of creating a new specifically named design task that both this and that report can be merged into. As #80490 is currently named and described, I think merging this task might lead to the specific issue this report describes getting lost/overlooked. @dr.sybren thoughts on what you would like done?

Bodhi commented

2020-12-30 00:32:47 +01:00

Added subscriber: @Bodi

Sybren A. Stüvel commented

2021-01-08 15:05:29 +01:00

Changed status from 'Needs User Info' to: 'Archived'

Sybren A. Stüvel closed this issue

2021-01-08 15:05:29 +01:00

Sybren A. Stüvel commented

2021-01-08 15:05:29 +01:00

Blender doesnt show local positions or global positions, but whatever the garbage it shows is, its broken and unusable.

Please be a bit more respectful in your wording.

I agree that the "parent inverse" matrix has some usability issues, mostly because it's so invisible in the UI. This is indeed a known problem. I've tried to document the workings of this matrix, and the reason why it exists in the first place, in the manual.

Just press {key Ctrl A} to select all objects, press {key Alt P} to get the "unparent" menu, then choose "Clear Parent Inverse". Or go to the menu item Object → Parent → Clear Parent Inverse. There you have all your cubes at the same location, (10, 0, 0) relative to the parent.

Closing this as invalid, as the report doesn't describe a bug in Blender.

> Blender doesnt show local positions or global positions, but whatever the garbage it shows is, its broken and unusable. Please be a bit more respectful in your wording. I agree that the "parent inverse" matrix has some usability issues, mostly because it's so invisible in the UI. This is indeed a known problem. I've tried to document the workings of this matrix, and the reason why it exists in the first place, in the [manual](https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/dev/scene_layout/object/editing/parent.html#parent-inverse). Just press {key Ctrl A} to select all objects, press {key Alt P} to get the "unparent" menu, then choose "Clear Parent Inverse". Or go to the menu item Object → Parent → Clear Parent Inverse. There you have all your cubes at the same location, (10, 0, 0) relative to the parent. Closing this as invalid, as the report doesn't describe a bug in Blender.

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2 objects with identical coordinate numbers appearing in completely different places #84147