Auto Keying with "Only Active Keying Set" creates keyframes it shouldn't #88066

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Matthew Hinson · 2021-05-05T21:44:40+02:00

Matthew Hinson commented

2021-05-05 21:44:40 +02:00

System Information
Operating system: Windows-10-10.0.18362-SP0 64 Bits
Graphics card: Radeon RX 580 Series ATI Technologies Inc. 4.5.13596 Core Profile Context 20.10.35.02 27.20.1034.6

Blender Version
Broken: version: 2.93.0 Alpha, branch: master, commit date: 2021-04-02 21:26, hash: 321eef6a0c
Worked: (unknown)

Short description of error
If you have Auto Keying enabled with "Only Active Keying Set", Blender creates keyframes for properties that aren't in the keying set, and creates keyframes for properties in the set when changing properties that aren't.

Exact steps for others to reproduce the error

Load the default startup scene.
Add two shape keys for the default cube (Basis and Key 1) and create keyframes for Key 1's "Value" and "Range Min" properties.
In the Timeline editor, open the channel region (little ">" on the left) and expand the "Summary" and "Key" groups.
Enable Auto Keying and move the playhead to another frame.
In succession: move the cube, change the shape key's Value property, and change the shape key's Range Min property. Each time, Blender only creates the relevant keyframes. So far so good.
Rightclick the Value property and choose "Add to Keying Set", then enable "Only Active Keying Set" in the Timeline editor. From now on, we only expect automatic keyframe creation for the Value property.
Move the playhead to another frame.
Change the Range Min property. Blender again creates a keyframe for it, even though it's not in the active keying set.
Move the cube. Surprisingly, Blender creates a keyframe for the Value property, even though we didn't change it.
As a bonus, move to another frame, move the default light, then select the cube again. Blender created a Value keyframe for the cube even though we didn't touch it.

**System Information** Operating system: Windows-10-10.0.18362-SP0 64 Bits Graphics card: Radeon RX 580 Series ATI Technologies Inc. 4.5.13596 Core Profile Context 20.10.35.02 27.20.1034.6 **Blender Version** Broken: version: 2.93.0 Alpha, branch: master, commit date: 2021-04-02 21:26, hash: `321eef6a0c` Worked: (unknown) **Short description of error** If you have Auto Keying enabled with "Only Active Keying Set", Blender creates keyframes for properties that aren't in the keying set, and creates keyframes for properties in the set when changing properties that aren't. **Exact steps for others to reproduce the error** * Load the default startup scene. * Add two shape keys for the default cube (Basis and Key 1) and create keyframes for Key 1's "Value" and "Range Min" properties. * In the Timeline editor, open the channel region (little ">" on the left) and expand the "Summary" and "Key" groups. * Enable Auto Keying and move the playhead to another frame. * In succession: move the cube, change the shape key's Value property, and change the shape key's Range Min property. Each time, Blender only creates the relevant keyframes. So far so good. * Rightclick the Value property and choose "Add to Keying Set", then enable "Only Active Keying Set" in the Timeline editor. From now on, we only expect automatic keyframe creation for the Value property. * Move the playhead to another frame. * Change the Range Min property. Blender again creates a keyframe for it, even though it's not in the active keying set. * Move the cube. Surprisingly, Blender creates a keyframe for the Value property, even though we didn't change it. * As a bonus, move to another frame, move the default light, then select the cube again. Blender created a Value keyframe for the cube even though we didn't touch it.

Matthew Hinson commented

2021-05-05 21:44:40 +02:00

Added subscriber: @Matthew-Hinson

Matthew Hinson commented

2021-05-05 22:39:35 +02:00

In general, I also find it a bit strange that while predefined keying sets create keyframes for the selected objects, custom keying sets create keyframes for specific objects regardless of what's selected. Would it make sense to allow custom keying set properties that have no target object and consist only of a data path (which then gets resolved at keyframe creation time based on whatever is selected)? If yes, I could create a separate ticket for that.

Philipp Oeser commented

2021-05-06 11:34:14 +02:00

Added subscriber: @lichtwerk

Philipp Oeser commented

2021-05-06 11:34:14 +02:00

In #88066#1156590, @Matthew-Hinson wrote:
In general, I also find it a bit strange that while predefined keying sets create keyframes for the selected objects, custom keying sets create keyframes for specific objects regardless of what's selected. Would it make sense to allow custom keying set properties that have no target object and consist only of a data path (which then gets resolved at keyframe creation time based on whatever is selected)? If yes, I could create a separate ticket for that.

This seems to be a limitation of custom KeyingSets in blender atm.
https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/animation/keyframes/keying_sets.html
These custom KeyingSets are always absolute, meaning you have to specify an individual ID (in you case the ID Type is of type Object, so you would have to pick a specific object for this to work)

This has been reported before, see #86961 (A bug in a scene. "i" does not work for creating keyframes)

While I also think this is pretty limiting (what you suggest makes total sense in my opinion), it would not be considered a bug atm.

> In #88066#1156590, @Matthew-Hinson wrote: > In general, I also find it a bit strange that while predefined keying sets create keyframes for the selected objects, custom keying sets create keyframes for specific objects regardless of what's selected. Would it make sense to allow custom keying set properties that have no target object and consist only of a data path (which then gets resolved at keyframe creation time based on whatever is selected)? If yes, I could create a separate ticket for that. This seems to be a limitation of custom KeyingSets in blender atm. https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/animation/keyframes/keying_sets.html These custom KeyingSets are always **absolute**, meaning you have to specify an individual ID (in you case the ID Type is of type Object, so you would have to pick a specific object for this to work) This has been reported before, see #86961 (A bug in a scene. "i" does not work for creating keyframes) While I also think this is pretty limiting (what you suggest makes total sense in my opinion), it would not be considered a bug atm.

Philipp Oeser commented

2021-05-06 11:36:44 +02:00

Changed status from 'Needs Triage' to: 'Confirmed'

Philipp Oeser commented

2021-05-06 11:36:44 +02:00

For the rest, I can confirm all of it

Sybren A. Stüvel commented

2021-11-05 12:52:25 +01:00

Added subscriber: @dr.sybren

Sybren A. Stüvel commented

2021-11-05 12:52:25 +01:00

Changed status from 'Confirmed' to: 'Archived'

Sybren A. Stüvel closed this issue

2021-11-05 12:52:25 +01:00

Sybren A. Stüvel commented

2021-11-05 12:52:25 +01:00

In succession: move the cube, change the shape key's Value property, and change the shape key's Range Min property. Each time, Blender only creates the relevant keyframes.

This I cannot reproduce in the 3.0 release branch (68e86c4816). For me it doesn't create the keyframes for the shape key Value or for the Range Min property.

This is the file I use for testing, which has a cube, with shapekeys (Basis + Key 1), auto-keying enabled, current frame set to 10, but nothing keyed just yet.

#88066-auto-keying-only-active.blend

Rightclick the Value property and choose "Add to Keying Set", then enable "Only Active Keying Set" in the Timeline editor. From now on, we only expect automatic keyframe creation for the Value property.

Move the playhead to another frame.

Change the Range Min property. Blender again creates a keyframe for it, even though it's not in the active keying set.

This I cannot reproduce; just like above, this doesn't create a key for me.

Move the cube. Surprisingly, Blender creates a keyframe for the Value property, even though we didn't change it.

This I can reproduce. Autokeying is implemented in a bit of a weird way, and "run autokeying now" is something that needs to be explicitly called. The transform tools are the ones that do this call, which is why moving the cube causes the creation of the key (just like you'd get when pressing {key I} in the viewport).

Autokeying works even without changing the target properties. For example, disable the "Only Active Keying Set" option again so that it's free to key whatever. Then press {key G} to start translating the cube, and without moving the mouse (so without changing any of the cube's transform properties), press {key Enter} to confirm this "no-op transformation". This will create transformation keys, even though the values haven't changed.

As a bonus, move to another frame, move the default light, then select the cube again. Blender created a Value keyframe for the cube even though we didn't touch it.

This is for the same reason. The transform tool runs the "autokey now" code, which can succesfully create a key for the property in the keying set.

I understand this is confusing -- it confuses me as well. Autokeying is a limited feature, that was intended mostly for animating objects & poses, so it's mostly integrated just with the transform tools. This is something to improve, but as far as I can see it's working as designed (just in a rather limited way). This is not something that's easily solved, as it really needs a redesign of the autokeying system. Because of this, I'll close this report. I do reference it from my Weak Areas of the Animation System wiki page, as I don't want this to be forgotten.

> In succession: move the cube, change the shape key's Value property, and change the shape key's Range Min property. Each time, Blender only creates the relevant keyframes. This I cannot reproduce in the 3.0 release branch (68e86c4816). For me it doesn't create the keyframes for the shape key Value or for the Range Min property. This is the file I use for testing, which has a cube, with shapekeys (Basis + Key 1), auto-keying enabled, current frame set to 10, but nothing keyed just yet. [#88066-auto-keying-only-active.blend](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F11729428/T88066-auto-keying-only-active.blend) > - Rightclick the Value property and choose "Add to Keying Set", then enable "Only Active Keying Set" in the Timeline editor. From now on, we only expect automatic keyframe creation for the Value property. > - Move the playhead to another frame. > - Change the Range Min property. Blender again creates a keyframe for it, even though it's not in the active keying set. This I cannot reproduce; just like above, this doesn't create a key for me. > - Move the cube. Surprisingly, Blender creates a keyframe for the Value property, even though we didn't change it. This I can reproduce. Autokeying is implemented in a bit of a weird way, and "run autokeying now" is something that needs to be explicitly called. The transform tools are the ones that do this call, which is why moving the cube causes the creation of the key (just like you'd get when pressing {key I} in the viewport). Autokeying works even without changing the target properties. For example, disable the "Only Active Keying Set" option again so that it's free to key whatever. Then press {key G} to start translating the cube, and without moving the mouse (so without changing any of the cube's transform properties), press {key Enter} to confirm this "no-op transformation". This will create transformation keys, even though the values haven't changed. > - As a bonus, move to another frame, move the default light, then select the cube again. Blender created a Value keyframe for the cube even though we didn't touch it. This is for the same reason. The transform tool runs the "autokey now" code, which can succesfully create a key for the property in the keying set. I understand this is confusing -- it confuses me as well. Autokeying is a limited feature, that was intended mostly for animating objects & poses, so it's mostly integrated just with the transform tools. This is something to improve, but as far as I can see it's working as designed (just in a rather limited way). This is not something that's easily solved, as it really needs a redesign of the autokeying system. Because of this, I'll close this report. I do reference it from my [Weak Areas of the Animation System](https://wiki.blender.org/wiki/User:Sybren/Animation_Weak_Areas#Auto-keying) wiki page, as I don't want this to be forgotten.

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Auto Keying with "Only Active Keying Set" creates keyframes it shouldn't #88066