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Manipulator position is wrong for meshes with modifiers
Open, Confirmed, MediumPublic


System Information
Win10, Win7, Mac OS Sierra
GTX970, GTX750

Blender Version
Broken: 2.78a e8299c8 , 2.66.0 r54697

Short description of error

When a joint (for example, an arm) is bent, paint weight is not enough to express deformation around the joint. So it's a common practice to add a shape key for the bent shape and edit it.
But when you enter edit mode and select polygons to edit it, the manipulator is on wrong position.

Exact steps for others to reproduce the error
Just select faces. Manipulator is supposed to sit on the selected faces but it's not.



Event Timeline

Julian Eisel (Severin) claimed this task.
Julian Eisel (Severin) triaged this task as Normal priority.

Will have a look at that, but as a rather low-priority one (everything still works, just a visual issue).

John Hur (vntrkd) added a comment.EditedFeb 11 2017, 3:26 AM

I think this happens because bone's transformation is not applied to the manipulator (see the pictures below).

This may look simple, but it's a very important issue for modelers. If manipulator sits on the wrong position, modelers cannot edit bent shapes properly. This is one of the most wanted bug fix among character modelers.

Thank you for paying attention to this problem.

I find this T54603 bug on release 2.79b in ordinary placement of manipulator.
simple but really annoying to use, as 2.79 keeps ok placement.

This problem, manipulator gizmo not offer visual transformed position (with armature posing)
not just a visual issue. There are many case which we need to get pivot and axis of visual transform.

When we edit character mesh, we often set pivot as selected, then use normal axis of selected faces (verts). I then move vertex with propotional edit with Gizmo. so we can smooth pull in out mesh as we need.

but current blender just use axis of non posed mesh normal axis.
I know to avoid this, about 2.7 there was plug in. (which generate new mesh bake armature posing, then transfer as new shape key from current posed base shape) but about 2.8 the plug in not up-dated.

I know we can sculpt but, to detail edit with preciese values , and direction, we need gizmo (and pivot) positioned on transformed mesh.

I ask here again. Is there any developer who plan to solve it? Because this report was offered about 2.78a . At least if developer think it just a visual issue.

I hope developer actually test with more practical case and understand, it is not just a visuall limitation. you can not trasform with current axis.

Brecht Van Lommel (brecht) renamed this task from Manipulator position is wrong while editing corrective shape keys to Manipulator position is wrong for meshes with modifiers.Apr 2 2019, 1:10 PM
Brecht Van Lommel (brecht) removed Julian Eisel (Severin) as the assignee of this task.
Brecht Van Lommel (brecht) raised the priority of this task from Normal to Confirmed, Medium.

Thanks change priority. Then why it is so important, I lost way to move vertex along current normal, or local axis with posing (by armature modifier)
If it is only matter about manipulatior position, most of case I just use short-cut with axis direction, then Manipulatior position is not so important. Corrective shape for bone often need to pull out ,in along normal direction of mesh.

When modeling, I often set pivot point as Current Active (or current selected boundary), And often use "cursor to selection", then set 3d cursor as pivot center for Rotation , Scaling (it work well for proportional editing) too.

But about modifier moved mesh (which change position), we can not set cursor to current selected postion. (visual transormed), it only set cursor positon on default location.
and Transform axis, Normal , local direction, of current selected segment are not up-dated. (keep zero-pose status)