Rigify #52158

New Issue

Adam Earle · 2017-07-23T13:45:31+02:00

Adam Earle commented

2017-07-23 13:45:31 +02:00

Adam's Computer specs:
Operating System: Windows 7
Ram: 32 gigs of ram
Screens: Wacom Cintiq DTZ 2100, Viano TV, Samsung computer screen
Graphics card; GTX 960
Motherboard Intel core i5-2400 CPU @ 3.1GHz (I know its old)

Blender 2.78.c
Date: 2017-02-24 14:33
Hash: e982ebd
Broken: (example: 2.69.7 4b206af, see splash screen)

We believe "Basic super copy" should be at the top of the
2.Rigify seems to operate best in scene metric centimeter units because when you add bones the new bone isn't so small if you are building to scale. We still believe that the added bone ie, "Basic.super_copy" is coming into small some artist are mistaking it for not being created. We believe if you are operating in world scale for generating a character rigify armature its default Z scale value should come in around 1m 70 cm because of the current average human height. Every other rig should follow the same scaling averages based upon the species that is being generated. This should help less experienced artist start producing more accurate and quality work. We believe that this is a "Workflow Bug". we do understand that is may not directly be a bug though the armature does come in way too small. Perhaps the armatures default value coming into a scene can be based on what metric the scene is currently using to solve this issue.

The Armature doesn't come in at a correct height at any metric or imperial setting

When the script mess up all the widgets will stack up on each other sometimes, we are not sure why this happens but we do know cleaning out the orphan data helps correct the script
Sometimes Mirrored bones with .R and .L extension won't generate controls. We believe that this may have some thing to do with naming conventions
Default bones of the armature could be named as follows
bone: spine.006 head
bone: spine.003 = chest
bone: spine = sacrum
the name changes are only to help signify the importance of the bones to Artist because of the need to create certain elements of the rig for animation flexibility. We do understand a snake doesn't have hips that the new edition of rigify offering more solution than the previous is more than welcomed.
Face could be broken up into separate components with a root for each section for creatures that may have ie

four eyes
one eye
no eyes
no ears and so on

this is so sub section of the face can be duplicateed or subtracted without the face breaking the rig

Exact steps for others to reproduce the error

Generate basic rigidify armature
delete face and the face root attached to the head
create a "Basic.super_copy" use it root for recreating a face plane root
duplicate the added bone for eyes ears and so one renaming with the .R extension
mirror the right side of the face you have created and flip your names so that they become .L copies of the right side of the face
turn on mirror axis to check your bones
generate rig

NOTE: this where you will out if some handles are generating and some are not - we don't know why

Thanks, guys loving this update
have there been new motion capture tools added Rigify as well?

Adam Earle

Adam's Computer specs: Operating System: Windows 7 Ram: 32 gigs of ram Screens: Wacom Cintiq DTZ 2100, Viano TV, Samsung computer screen Graphics card; GTX 960 Motherboard Intel core i5-2400 CPU @ 3.1GHz (I know its old) **Blender 2.78.c** Date: 2017-02-24 14:33 Hash: e982ebd Broken: (example: 2.69.7 4b206af, see splash screen) 1. We believe "Basic super copy" should be at the top of the 2.Rigify seems to operate best in scene metric centimeter units because when you add bones the new bone isn't so small if you are building to scale. We still believe that the added bone ie, "Basic.super_copy" is coming into small some artist are mistaking it for not being created. We believe if you are operating in world scale for generating a character rigify armature its default Z scale value should come in around 1m 70 cm because of the current average human height. Every other rig should follow the same scaling averages based upon the species that is being generated. This should help less experienced artist start producing more accurate and quality work. We believe that this is a "Workflow Bug". we do understand that is may not directly be a bug though the armature does come in way too small. Perhaps the armatures default value coming into a scene can be based on what metric the scene is currently using to solve this issue. The Armature doesn't come in at a correct height at any metric or imperial setting 3. When the script mess up all the widgets will stack up on each other sometimes, we are not sure why this happens but we do know cleaning out the orphan data helps correct the script 4. Sometimes Mirrored bones with .R and .L extension won't generate controls. We believe that this may have some thing to do with naming conventions 5. Default bones of the armature could be named as follows bone: spine.006 head bone: spine.003 = chest bone: spine = sacrum the name changes are only to help signify the importance of the bones to Artist because of the need to create certain elements of the rig for animation flexibility. We do understand a snake doesn't have hips that the new edition of rigify offering more solution than the previous is more than welcomed. 6. Face could be broken up into separate components with a root for each section for creatures that may have ie - four eyes - one eye - no eyes - no ears and so on this is so sub section of the face can be duplicateed or subtracted without the face breaking the rig **Exact steps for others to reproduce the error** 1. Generate basic rigidify armature 2. delete face and the face root attached to the head 3. create a "Basic.super_copy" use it root for recreating a face plane root 4. duplicate the added bone for eyes ears and so one renaming with the .R extension 5. mirror the right side of the face you have created and flip your names so that they become .L copies of the right side of the face 6. turn on mirror axis to check your bones 7. generate rig NOTE: this where you will out if some handles are generating and some are not - we don't know why Thanks, guys loving this update have there been new motion capture tools added Rigify as well? Adam Earle

Adam Earle commented

2017-07-23 13:45:31 +02:00

Changed status to: 'Open'

Adam Earle commented

2017-07-23 13:45:31 +02:00

Added subscriber: @AdamEarle

Adam Earle commented

2017-07-23 13:50:24 +02:00

System info
system-info.txt

System info [system-info.txt](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F676278/system-info.txt)

Adam Earle commented

2017-07-23 13:52:48 +02:00

Basic armature test.Armature test.blend

Basic armature test.[Armature test.blend](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F676281/Armature_test.blend)

Brendon Murphy commented

2017-07-27 10:32:30 +02:00

Added subscribers: @LucioRossi, @icappiello, @BrendonMurphy

Brendon Murphy commented

2017-07-27 10:32:30 +02:00

hi, could you test this with nightly builds?
@LucioRossi @icappiello any thoughts here?

hi, could you test this with nightly builds? @LucioRossi @icappiello any thoughts here?

Ivan Cappiello commented

2017-07-27 12:01:19 +02:00

Changed status from 'Open' to: 'Archived'

Ivan Cappiello closed this issue

2017-07-27 12:01:19 +02:00

Ivan Cappiello self-assigned this 2017-07-27 12:01:19 +02:00

Ivan Cappiello commented

2017-07-27 12:01:19 +02:00

@AdamEarle,
first, take in consideration that all the first part of your post is not a bug report. I could take it as a sort of design proposal. I'll take the time to answer anyway but please next time consider that a bug is considered something the program is explicitly meant to do and doesn't.

Coming to the first part of your thread:

We believe "Basic super copy" should be at the top of the

i think here you meant top of the list. Well, the list is generated automatically by name. I think is more consistent than ranking the rig types.

Rigify seems to operate best in scene metric centimeter units because when you add bones the new bone isn't so small if you are building to scale. We still believe that the added bone ie, "Basic.super_copy" is coming into small some artist are mistaking it for not being created. We believe if you are operating in world scale for generating a character rigify armature its default Z scale value should come in around 1m 70 cm because of the current average human height. Every other rig should follow the same scaling averages based upon the species that is being generated. This should help less experienced artist start producing more accurate and quality work. We believe that this is a "Workflow Bug". we do understand that is may not directly be a bug though the armature does come in way too small. Perhaps the armatures default value coming into a scene can be based on what metric the scene is currently using to solve this issue.

i don't agree with anything here. The metarigs are scaled accordingly to each other. That said, metarigs serve as generic purpose starting point. Animals have different dimension even looking inside a single species. Just think at the different sizes between a crow and a seagull or an eagle. Human is 1.8 BU, that translates in 1m80cm, i think is a good average and if the character has to interact with dynamics is the real world set-up for simulations. For this as for the rest, you can scale the armature as you like. Please have a look at the wiki before posting again: Rigify Wiki

When the script mess up all the widgets will stack up on each other sometimes, we are not sure why this happens but we do know cleaning out the orphan data helps correct the script

That's a viewport update bug. The widgets are correctly generated though. If you want tho have them back in the correct positions, just select them all at once and hit G and then Enter. The widget will update their positions.

Sometimes Mirrored bones with .R and .L extension won't generate controls. We believe that this may have some thing to do with naming conventions

That's not true. Your attached file doesn't differ from that. You just forgot to specify the rig type on the bones.

Default bones of the armature could be named as follows
bone: spine.006 head
bone: spine.003 = chest
bone: spine = sacrum
the name changes are only to help signify the importance of the bones to Artist because of the need to create certain elements of the rig for animation flexibility. We do understand a snake doesn't have hips that the new edition of rigify offering more solution than the previous is more than welcomed.

As for anything here: you can rename the bones as you need. Rigify will replicate your custom names in all the generated bones and controls.

Face could be broken up into separate components with a root for each section for creatures that may have ie
four eyes
one eye
no eyes
no ears and so on
this is so sub section of the face can be duplicateed or subtracted without the face breaking the rig

I agree, it's already planned. And, again,this is not a bug. This is a feature request.

Exact steps for others to reproduce the error

Generate basic rigidify armature
delete face and the face root attached to the head
create a "Basic.super_copy" use it root for recreating a face plane root
duplicate the added bone for eyes ears and so one renaming with the .R extension
mirror the right side of the face you have created and flip your names so that they become .L copies of the right side of the face
turn on mirror axis to check your bones
generate rig

i think i have already answered to that in the previous lines:
You just forgot to specify the rig type on the bones.

Cheers,
Ivan

@AdamEarle, first, take in consideration that all the first part of your post **is not** a bug report. I could take it as a sort of design proposal. I'll take the time to answer anyway but please next time consider that a bug is considered something the program is explicitly meant to do and doesn't. Coming to the first part of your thread: > We believe "Basic super copy" should be at the top of the i think here you meant *top of the list*. Well, the list is generated automatically by name. I think is more consistent than ranking the rig types. > Rigify seems to operate best in scene metric centimeter units because when you add bones the new bone isn't so small if you are building to scale. We still believe that the added bone ie, "Basic.super_copy" is coming into small some artist are mistaking it for not being created. We believe if you are operating in world scale for generating a character rigify armature its default Z scale value should come in around 1m 70 cm because of the current average human height. Every other rig should follow the same scaling averages based upon the species that is being generated. This should help less experienced artist start producing more accurate and quality work. We believe that this is a "Workflow Bug". we do understand that is may not directly be a bug though the armature does come in way too small. Perhaps the armatures default value coming into a scene can be based on what metric the scene is currently using to solve this issue. i don't agree with anything here. The metarigs are scaled accordingly to each other. That said, metarigs serve as generic purpose starting point. Animals have different dimension even looking inside a single species. Just think at the different sizes between a crow and a seagull or an eagle. Human is 1.8 BU, that translates in 1m80cm, i think is a good average and if the character has to interact with dynamics is the real world set-up for simulations. For this as for the rest, **you can scale the armature as you like**. Please have a look at the wiki before posting again: [Rigify Wiki ](https://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Extensions:2.6/Py/Scripts/Rigging/Rigify) > When the script mess up all the widgets will stack up on each other sometimes, we are not sure why this happens but we do know cleaning out the orphan data helps correct the script That's a viewport update bug. The widgets are correctly generated though. If you want tho have them back in the correct positions, just select them all at once and hit G and then Enter. The widget will update their positions. > Sometimes Mirrored bones with .R and .L extension won't generate controls. We believe that this may have some thing to do with naming conventions That's not true. Your attached file doesn't differ from that. You just **forgot** to specify the rig type on the bones. > Default bones of the armature could be named as follows > bone: spine.006 head > bone: spine.003 = chest > bone: spine = sacrum > the name changes are only to help signify the importance of the bones to Artist because of the need to create certain elements of the rig for animation flexibility. We do understand a snake doesn't have hips that the new edition of rigify offering more solution than the previous is more than welcomed. As for anything here: **you can rename the bones as you need.** Rigify will replicate your custom names in all the generated bones and controls. >Face could be broken up into separate components with a root for each section for creatures that may have ie >four eyes >one eye >no eyes >no ears and so on >this is so sub section of the face can be duplicateed or subtracted without the face breaking the rig I agree, it's already planned. And, again,**this is not a bug**. This is a feature request. >Exact steps for others to reproduce the error > >Generate basic rigidify armature >delete face and the face root attached to the head >create a "Basic.super_copy" use it root for recreating a face plane root >duplicate the added bone for eyes ears and so one renaming with the .R extension >mirror the right side of the face you have created and flip your names so that they become .L copies of the right side of the face >turn on mirror axis to check your bones >generate rig i think i have already answered to that in the previous lines: You just **forgot** to specify the rig type on the bones. Cheers, Ivan

Adam Earle commented

2017-07-27 20:31:07 +02:00

Hi matey thanks for getting back to me

Thanks for the heads up on everything. I thought it might be worth saying something than nothing at all.

i am not sure what you mean by specify a rig type? If I create a "basic copy_chain" and then generate how does one choose the rig type? And is this happening before generation or after. I couldn't find anything the wiki except for maybe something that may have to do with grouping?

The Wiki https://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Extensions:2.6/Py/Scripts/Rigging/Rigify

"Advanced Usage
in progress Inprogress25.jpg 10% just started
Install the add-on and activate.
Add a single bone from the Add > Armature menu.
Go in edit Armature Edit Mode and build the meta rig by samples or rigify-types.
Define Rigify Layers, Bone Grouping and Selection Sets (New)
In the armature properties click on the generate button to generate the rig".

Thanks again.

Adam Earle

Hi matey thanks for getting back to me Thanks for the heads up on everything. I thought it might be worth saying something than nothing at all. i am not sure what you mean by specify a rig type? If I create a "basic copy_chain" and then generate how does one choose the rig type? And is this happening before generation or after. I couldn't find anything the wiki except for maybe something that may have to do with grouping? The Wiki https://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Extensions:2.6/Py/Scripts/Rigging/Rigify "Advanced Usage in progress Inprogress25.jpg 10% just started Install the add-on and activate. Add a single bone from the Add > Armature menu. Go in edit Armature Edit Mode and build the meta rig by samples or rigify-types. Define Rigify Layers, Bone Grouping and Selection Sets (New) In the armature properties click on the generate button to generate the rig". Thanks again. Adam Earle

Adam Earle commented

2017-07-27 20:53:53 +02:00

Hi guys just testing today nightly build

Right now I can't haven't bee able to find anything wrong with it.

We will be rigging loads in the next month so we can keep you posted if anything else plays up.
I will get some of the artist to test it out first thing tomorrow morning.

Adam

Hi guys just testing today nightly build Right now I can't haven't bee able to find anything wrong with it. We will be rigging loads in the next month so we can keep you posted if anything else plays up. I will get some of the artist to test it out first thing tomorrow morning. Adam

Adam Earle commented

2017-07-27 21:11:53 +02:00

The only thing that I can think is if the widgets do somehow end stacked up o each other perhaps if their Deltas are applied when an artist needs to get them back to zero they can hit Alt + g Alt +R Alt+S if need be.
In saying that though I have no idea how that will affect the script. I don't see why it wouldn't work it would kinda help the rig be a little bit more donkey proof.

Again I will get the artist to check it out first thing I the morning.

thanks again guys really do appreciate all the work that you guys do

Ad

The only thing that I can think is if the widgets do somehow end stacked up o each other perhaps if their Deltas are applied when an artist needs to get them back to zero they can hit Alt + g Alt +R Alt+S if need be. In saying that though I have no idea how that will affect the script. I don't see why it wouldn't work it would kinda help the rig be a little bit more donkey proof. Again I will get the artist to check it out first thing I the morning. thanks again guys really do appreciate all the work that you guys do Ad

Lucio Rossi commented

2017-07-27 21:45:00 +02:00

Hi @AdamEarle,

More precisely we are referring to the "Rigify Type" property of pose bones.
You can set it up in the Bone Properties panel.
Keep in mind the following:

As you know, when you create a metarig from scratch you can add a subrig sample hitting "Add Samples" in Edit mode. For each one of these samples though only one of the bones you generate will have a defined Rigify Type property. That's the root-of-the-chain bone.
When you copy a bone in Edit mode, the relevant pose bone properties are copied as well. The "Rigify Type" property is no exception.
You mentioned two cases "basic.super_copy" and "basic.copy_chain".
When you duplicate a basic.super_copy, all the bones you spawn will have the same Rigify Type... but that's just a single bone chain!
A basic.copy_chain on the other hand, is a different story. The sample you get when you hit "Add Sample" in Edit mode is three bones long, of which only the first one (the root-of-the-chain) holds the "basic.copy_chain" Rigify Type.
This means that if you copy one of the others belonging to the chain you won't get a bone generating any widget.

Hope this clarifies.
PS next time you are in doubt check the wiki and ask the community fisrt! Only if you are 90% sure something is going awry open a bug report ;)

Hi @AdamEarle, More precisely we are referring to the "Rigify Type" property of __pose__ bones. You can set it up in the Bone Properties panel. Keep in mind the following: - As you know, when you create a metarig from scratch you can add a subrig sample hitting "Add Samples" in Edit mode. For each one of these samples though __only one__ of the bones you generate will have a defined Rigify Type property. That's the root-of-the-chain bone. - When you copy a bone in Edit mode, the relevant pose bone properties are copied as well. The "Rigify Type" property is no exception. You mentioned two cases "basic.super_copy" and "basic.copy_chain". When you duplicate a basic.super_copy, all the bones you spawn will have the same Rigify Type... but that's just a __single__ bone chain! A basic.copy_chain on the other hand, is a different story. The sample you get when you hit "Add Sample" in Edit mode is three bones long, of which only the first one (the root-of-the-chain) holds the "basic.copy_chain" Rigify Type. This means that if you copy one of the others belonging to the chain you won't get a bone generating any widget. Hope this clarifies. PS next time you are in doubt check the wiki and ask the community fisrt! Only if you are 90% sure something is going awry open a bug report ;)

Adam Earle commented

2017-07-28 09:43:07 +02:00

HI guys

All seems well and the artist don't seem to be having any trouble except for one thing.

The ability to assign weights from when the armature bones are in"pose mode" and the mesh is in "Wieght Paint mode"
So when you are in weight paint mode and have the bones selected you want to apply to the object you tap the W key. Then choose from the menu that appears "Assign automatic weights from bones" and it will be grayed out not accessible.
It seems to be only an active option once you have applied weight in some other way first and you are either adding to selection or you have deleted all your weights and then you try "Assign automatic weights from bones".

Again we are not sure if this is a bug or not but it is certainly terribly cumbersome and so far we haven't been able to find any documentation on this current working method of assigning weights other than an old PitchPoy youtube clip. If you notice the way that he is working it seems like the bug was built into the workflow because of constant testing and the way that he is working,

So one more time with love and feeling. If the mesh has had weight assigned to it the option is available. If your running first time through the cycle with mesh applying weights "Assign automatic weights from bones" is not available.

Watch from: 1:18:00 - 1:27:00
https:*www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dwCXMc2V0U&t=1s

Thanks Guys

Well done on the fixes

Adam Earle

HI guys All seems well and the artist don't seem to be having any trouble except for one thing. The ability to assign weights from when the armature bones are in"pose mode" and the mesh is in "Wieght Paint mode" So when you are in weight paint mode and have the bones selected you want to apply to the object you tap the W key. Then choose from the menu that appears "Assign automatic weights from bones" and it will be grayed out not accessible. It seems to be only an active option once you have applied weight in some other way first and you are either adding to selection or you have deleted all your weights and then you try "Assign automatic weights from bones". Again we are not sure if this is a bug or not but it is certainly terribly cumbersome and so far we haven't been able to find any documentation on this current working method of assigning weights other than an old PitchPoy youtube clip. If you notice the way that he is working it seems like the bug was built into the workflow because of constant testing and the way that he is working, So one more time with love and feeling. If the mesh has had weight assigned to it the option is available. If your running first time through the cycle with mesh applying weights "Assign automatic weights from bones" is not available. Watch from: 1:18:00 - 1:27:00 [https:*www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dwCXMc2V0U&t=1s ](https:*www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dwCXMc2V0U&t=1s) Thanks Guys Well done on the fixes Adam Earle

Ivan Cappiello commented

2017-07-28 11:05:46 +02:00

@AdamEarle,
your last post refers to a separate issue. Please do not continue posting in this thread if the content is not related to the bug report you opened, especially if the thread is closed and you do not provide new and useful informations about the reported bug.
Moreover, before opening a new thread, pleasetry to use the search field or google for your query.
If you did you'd probably found this:

https://developer.blender.org/T52130

All the deforming bones in rigify have the 'DEF-' prefix and they all lay on layer 30. So if you select any bone from that layer that has been weighted you will see the correct association in the viewport too.
[...]
In order to have the "Assign Automatic From Bones" option you just need to have the Armature modifier assigned on your mesh and correctly pointing to the Rig. You can do it manually adding the modifier to the mesh or just making:
(ctrl+P) Parent > Armature Deform > With Automatic Weights
or
(ctrl+P) Parent > Armature Deform > With Empty Weights (if you prefer to set it manually later)

in particular look this part:

[...] rigify is not involved in weight painting process. Rigify just creates bones, drivers and constraints. As specified in the add-on description readme, all the binding and weighting is handled by the user with all the standard blender weighting tools.

and searching in the Rigify Wiki page would have led you to this:

Binding the geometries to the rig
To bind the geometries to the rig you can use your preferred tools. Just few things you have to know:

All the deforming bones are on the armature layer 30.

Eyes and Teeth bones are not deforming. You are supposed to bind eyes and teeth geometries through child-of constraints.

Usually armature deform with automatic weights do a really good job out of the box if you correctly place your bones (and there’s enough topology to work with!).
For more detailed information on armature layers, armature modifier and weight painting refer to the blender wiki.

From now on, please follow the common rules while opening and commenting a thread on the bug tracker.

Cheers,
Ivan

@AdamEarle, your last post refers to a separate issue. Please do not continue posting in this thread if the content is not related to the bug report you opened, especially if the thread is **closed** and you do not provide **new and useful informations about the reported bug.** Moreover, before opening a new thread, please**try to use the search field or google for your query**. If you did you'd probably found this: https://developer.blender.org/T52130 >All the deforming bones in rigify have the 'DEF-' prefix and they all lay on layer 30. So if you select any bone from that layer that has been weighted you will see the correct association in the viewport too. >[...] >In order to have the "Assign Automatic From Bones" option you just need to have the Armature modifier assigned on your mesh and correctly pointing to the Rig. You can do it manually adding the modifier to the mesh or just making: >(ctrl+P) Parent > Armature Deform > With Automatic Weights >or >(ctrl+P) Parent > Armature Deform > With Empty Weights (if you prefer to set it manually later) in particular look this part: >[...] rigify is not involved in weight painting process. Rigify just creates bones, drivers and constraints. As specified in the add-on description readme, all the binding and weighting is handled by the user with all the standard blender weighting tools. and searching in the Rigify Wiki page would have led you to this: >**Binding the geometries to the rig** >To bind the geometries to the rig you can use your preferred tools. Just few things you have to know: > >* All the deforming bones are on the armature layer 30. >* Eyes and Teeth bones are not deforming. You are supposed to bind eyes and teeth geometries through child-of constraints. >* Usually armature deform with automatic weights do a really good job out of the box if you correctly place your bones (and there’s enough topology to work with!). >For more detailed information on armature layers, armature modifier and weight painting refer to the blender wiki. From now on, please follow the common rules while opening and commenting a thread on the bug tracker. Cheers, Ivan

Sign in to join this conversation.