Remove confirmation dialogs Save or Delete, in favour of displaying messages in the Status Bar #57880

New Issue

William Reynish · 2018-11-16T21:40:42+01:00

William Reynish commented

2018-11-16 21:40:42 +01:00

Currently, some actions spawn confirmation popups, which slows down the workflow and adds confusion if the action was already performed or not. We've solved this problem already for things like the Remove Doubles tool, which immediately performs the action, but then displays a message in the Status Bar to let users know what happened.

There are several prompts we could remove completely, in favour of showing a message in the Status Bar.

For example. there's no need for a Save popup menu with no options other than clicking. In fact, this is a usability issue, because users might think they have already saved when in fact they have only opened a dialog. I've seen users lose work because if this behaviour.

So, rather than showing this when you hit Save, which requires an extra click every time:

We should just save immediately and display a message in the Status Bar, like so:

The same goes for things like deleting. When hitting the Delete key, rather than showing a popup that you need to dismiss, we could just use a warning color in the Status bar with a message:

It's both easier & faster, and with the message UI, we communicate to the user what is going on.

We could keep the X key behaviour the same as now, since it's much easier to accidentally hit than the Delete key.

Currently, some actions spawn confirmation popups, which slows down the workflow and adds confusion if the action was already performed or not. We've solved this problem already for things like the Remove Doubles tool, which immediately performs the action, but then displays a message in the Status Bar to let users know what happened. There are several prompts we could remove completely, in favour of showing a message in the Status Bar. For example. there's no need for a Save popup menu with no options other than clicking. In fact, this is a usability issue, because users might think they have already saved when in fact they have only opened a dialog. I've seen users lose work because if this behaviour. So, rather than showing this when you hit Save, which requires an extra click every time: ![Screen Shot 2018-11-16 at 21.27.53.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F5589811/Screen_Shot_2018-11-16_at_21.27.53.png) We should just save immediately and display a message in the Status Bar, like so: ![Screen Shot 2018-11-16 at 21.29.40.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F5589814/Screen_Shot_2018-11-16_at_21.29.40.png) The same goes for things like deleting. When hitting the `Delete key`, rather than showing a popup that you need to dismiss, we could just use a warning color in the Status bar with a message: ![Screen Shot 2018-11-16 at 21.32.34.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F5589816/Screen_Shot_2018-11-16_at_21.32.34.png) It's both easier & faster, and with the message UI, we communicate to the user what is going on. We could keep the `X key` behaviour the same as now, since it's much easier to accidentally hit than the Delete key.

William Reynish commented

2018-11-16 21:40:42 +01:00

Added subscribers: @WilliamReynish, @Thane5, @orvb, @brezdo, @iss, @0o00o0oo, @ideasman42, @RamiroCantu, @Regnas

Duarte Farrajota Ramos commented

2018-11-16 23:41:53 +01:00

Added subscriber: @DuarteRamos

Sebastian Koenig commented

2018-11-17 08:01:52 +01:00

Added subscriber: @sebastian_k

Sebastian Koenig commented

2018-11-17 08:01:52 +01:00

The same conversation popped up few years ago, and I still strongly disagree, especially for deleting things.
For dialogs where the action already happend, like remove doubles, simply showing a message is fine. But I believe this case is already solved, just like you mentioned.
However, I would be strongly against deleting stuff without confirmation. Blender has always been a rather hotkey oriented tool. And it is just too easy to hit X or Delete etc. by accident. Sure, in small scenes you could hit Undo, but in really heavy scenes, where selecting or even deleting can take a couple of seconds or, even worse, could cause a crash, that would be unacceptable.
Most operators in Blender can be cancelled before they where executed, and I love that. Especially delete should also work that way.

Save Over is a bit different, I can see the need to change that. If you hit delete and then move your mouse away without confirmation, you notice that nothing happened. But when you hit Ctrl+S you wouldn't know whether anything or nothing happened. So this needs to be addressed.

The same conversation popped up few years ago, and I still strongly disagree, especially for deleting things. For dialogs where the action already happend, like remove doubles, simply showing a message is fine. But I believe this case is already solved, just like you mentioned. However, I would be strongly against deleting stuff without confirmation. Blender has always been a rather hotkey oriented tool. And it is just too easy to hit X or Delete etc. by accident. Sure, in small scenes you could hit Undo, but in really heavy scenes, where selecting or even deleting can take a couple of seconds or, even worse, could cause a crash, that would be unacceptable. Most operators in Blender can be cancelled before they where executed, and I love that. Especially delete should also work that way. Save Over is a bit different, I can see the need to change that. If you hit delete and then move your mouse away without confirmation, you notice that nothing happened. But when you hit Ctrl+S you wouldn't know whether anything or nothing happened. So this needs to be addressed.

William Reynish commented

2018-11-17 09:21:58 +01:00

@sebastian_k: take the example of a text editor. For every time you attempted to delete a paragraph or hit backspace to delete a character, if the text editor would spawn such a pop up, it’d drive you nuts.

The thing about Blender though, is that we use the X key, which is more likely to be hit by accident. One of the exact reasons why the Delete of Backspace keys are not in the center of the keyboard, is exactly so that you never accidentally press them. But when you do hit Delete, it’s always a deliberate action.

So, one solution could be that the X key still spawns a pop up but hitting the Delete key immediately deletes.

@sebastian_k: take the example of a text editor. For every time you attempted to delete a paragraph or hit backspace to delete a character, if the text editor would spawn such a pop up, it’d drive you nuts. The thing about Blender though, is that we use the X key, which is more likely to be hit by accident. One of the exact reasons why the Delete of Backspace keys are not in the center of the keyboard, is exactly so that you never accidentally press them. But when you do hit Delete, it’s always a deliberate action. So, one solution could be that the X key still spawns a pop up but hitting the Delete key immediately deletes.

Erick Tukuniata commented

2018-11-17 10:48:41 +01:00

Added subscriber: @ErickNyanduKabongo

Erick Tukuniata commented

2018-11-17 10:48:41 +01:00

I m leaning on letting things the way they are right now. @sebastian_k is pointing good points, and deleting an object from heavy project is really different from deleting a paragraph from text editor like @WilliamReynish wants to argue. The model can be from a project that you have been worked on for many months on a busy scene. Accidentally delete it and everything goes silent, you keep on moving and few months later you realize that you don't have that model anymore.

So, one solution could be that the X key still spawns a pop up but hitting the Delete key immediately deletes.

This implementation will be inconsistent behavior on deleting an object, and what if by accident someone, something, some cat presses the delete button? Will this mean data lost?

Since we can observe people liking this ticket, and the subject is coming up again and again, if implemented, i will suggest to put a check box in User preferences. And please leave the actual behavior as default.

I m leaning on letting things the way they are right now. @sebastian_k is pointing good points, and deleting an object from heavy project is really different from deleting a paragraph from text editor like @WilliamReynish wants to argue. The model can be from a project that you have been worked on for many months on a busy scene. Accidentally delete it and everything goes silent, you keep on moving and few months later you realize that you don't have that model anymore. >So, one solution could be that the X key still spawns a pop up but hitting the Delete key immediately deletes. This implementation will be inconsistent behavior on deleting an object, and what if by accident someone, something, some cat presses the delete button? Will this mean data lost? Since we can observe people liking this ticket, and the subject is coming up again and again, if implemented, i will suggest to put a check box in User preferences. And please leave the actual behavior as default.

Sebastian Koenig commented

2018-11-17 10:55:52 +01:00

That could be a solution, yes.
I still don't see the need to change the current behavior though.
If you delete in Edit Mode it also brings up a menu that works the same way: If you move the mouse away, nothing happenes. Sure, you have some more options there, but the principle is the same. So I don't see why that would have to be different. Especially because in 3d View deleting an object can have much bigger implications, performance and dependency wise, than in other editors.

That could be a solution, yes. I still don't see the need to change the current behavior though. If you delete in Edit Mode it also brings up a menu that works the same way: If you move the mouse away, nothing happenes. Sure, you have some more options there, but the principle is the same. So I don't see why that would have to be different. Especially because in 3d View deleting an object can have much bigger implications, performance and dependency wise, than in other editors.

William Reynish commented

2018-11-17 14:57:07 +01:00

Here's what I think we should do then:

When hitting Ctrl/Cmd-S. to Save, do it immediately, and show the Status Bar message
When using Del key, delete immediately, and show the Status Bar message
Keep X key working as it does now

We could also add a preference, but if we do it like described here I think that's not necessary.

Here's what I think we should do then: - When hitting Ctrl/Cmd-S. to Save, do it immediately, and show the Status Bar message - When using Del key, delete immediately, and show the Status Bar message - Keep X key working as it does now We *could* also add a preference, but if we do it like described here I think that's not necessary.

Duarte Farrajota Ramos commented

2018-11-17 15:15:02 +01:00

In #57880#554790, @WilliamReynish wrote:

When hitting Ctrl/Cmd-S. to Save, do it immediately, and show the Status Bar message

When using Del key, delete immediately, and show the Status Bar message

Keep X key working as it does now

I really like this proposal, yes, please remove save confirmation. I don't have strong feelings about delete, I'd rather see it go, but your proposal seems quite reasonable middle ground.

Instead of a user preference maybe the "ask for confirmation" could be an operator parameter; that way it could be set on a per instance basis.

Say pressing Delete would not ask, but X would, and pressing some button in a toolbar or an entry in a menu would not require confirmation. Users could then adjust as desired from the keymap options on an individual key basis.

> In #57880#554790, @WilliamReynish wrote: > - When hitting Ctrl/Cmd-S. to Save, do it immediately, and show the Status Bar message > - When using Del key, delete immediately, and show the Status Bar message > - Keep X key working as it does now I really like this proposal, yes, please remove save confirmation. I don't have strong feelings about delete, I'd rather see it go, but your proposal seems quite reasonable middle ground. Instead of a user preference maybe the "ask for confirmation" could be an operator parameter; that way it could be set on a per instance basis. Say pressing `Delete` would not ask, but `X` would, and pressing some button in a toolbar or an entry in a menu would not require confirmation. Users could then adjust as desired from the keymap options on an individual key basis.

Nathan Craddock commented

2018-11-17 16:49:53 +01:00

Added subscriber: @natecraddock

Nathan Craddock commented

2018-11-17 16:49:53 +01:00

In #57880#554796, @DuarteRamos wrote:

Instead of a user preference maybe the "ask for confirmation" could be an operator parameter, that way it could be set on a per instance basis.

Say pressing Delete would not ask, but X would, and pressing some button or an entry in a menu would not require confirmation. Users could then adjust as Desired from the keymap options on a per key basis.

I think using an operator parameter is the smartest solution. I have the original suggestion implemented here D3953 and I will see if I can update it to have a parameter instead

> In #57880#554796, @DuarteRamos wrote: > > Instead of a user preference maybe the "ask for confirmation" could be an operator parameter, that way it could be set on a per instance basis. > > Say pressing Delete would not ask, but X would, and pressing some button or an entry in a menu would not require confirmation. Users could then adjust as Desired from the keymap options on a per key basis. I think using an operator parameter is the smartest solution. I have the original suggestion implemented here [D3953](https://archive.blender.org/developer/D3953) and I will see if I can update it to have a parameter instead

William Reynish commented

2018-11-17 16:59:07 +01:00

@Zachman: Sounds good.

Campbell Barton commented

2018-11-20 00:24:35 +01:00

Changed status from 'Open' to: 'Resolved'

Campbell Barton closed this issue

2018-11-20 00:24:35 +01:00

Campbell Barton self-assigned this 2018-11-20 00:24:35 +01:00

Mateusz commented

2020-05-18 15:35:33 +02:00

Removed subscriber: @brezdo

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Remove confirmation dialogs Save or Delete, in favour of displaying messages in the Status Bar #57880