Gizmo, pivot, axis, for manipulation need to show modifier applied mesh elements position. #63212

New Issue

takeshi funahashi · 2019-04-02T10:43:45+02:00

takeshi funahashi commented

2019-04-02 10:43:45 +02:00

all 2.8 and recent 2.7 builds

Short description of error
when mesh have modifier (typically armature) which deform mesh,in Edit mode , gizmo do not show correct selected vertex position, and do not use pivot of current defromed visuall location, and rotation.

Exact steps for others to reproduce the error

1 load cube, load armature (single bone)
2 select cube, with ctrl select single bone armature, (Active) , ctrr + p >Armature deform >with automatic weight.
3 clear selection, then select the cube, go to Properties editror > modifier , then activate "Display modifier in edit mode" and "Adjust edit cage to modifer result.
4 clear selection, select armature (single bone) , in pose mode, translate bone 7 unit and rotate bone.
5 now the cube mesh posed with bone. then go to edit mode. we can see visual transformed positon of mesh verts

6 "transform problems" with gizmo, pivot, and trasform axis.

 Select one vertex of cube,  then activate "move tool" ,with set pivot as Active Elements.  As visual infomation, we can see selected vertex keep the posed position. but Gizmo never locate on the vertex place.   though we can still transform , if the mesh hardly posed we may not see gizmo in current UI.  without we adjust view.

Select one face of cube, then set Transform orientation as "Normal" , it never move face to current visuall face normal direction. just show non posed mesh face normals. (so all orientation just show non-posed mesh orientation) . Rotation and Scale have same issue . because axis and pivot just keep non posed direction with each option. we can never edit with visuall infomation. (axis line or current gizmo, and pivot)

Of course Cusor to selected, just move cursor to Non posed selected elements position. (so can not use as pivot too)

7 "proportional editing problem"

 When activate proportional edit, we need to check circle radius. but the radius circle locate on, Non defromed position. It cause difficult to adjust mesh verts with proportional edit.   almost un-useful, when we need detail work.

Then, It is already reported,
Manipulator position is wrong while editing corrective shape keys
This subject just leave it off as piority Normal. But it really important for modeling with modifier, and shape keys. (modify animated mesh etc etc,,)

I really hope some developer try to solve this issue. (though I do not call it bug, but really important future, for editing mesh)
at least change priority from "Normal" please.. , I expected blender 2.8 new dependency graph will solve this problem.

all 2.8 and recent 2.7 builds **Short description of error** when mesh have modifier (typically armature) which deform mesh,in Edit mode , gizmo do not show correct selected vertex position, and do not use pivot of current defromed visuall location, and rotation. **Exact steps for others to reproduce the error** 1 load cube, load armature (single bone) 2 select cube, with ctrl select single bone armature, (Active) , ctrr + p >Armature deform >with automatic weight. 3 clear selection, then select the cube, go to Properties editror > modifier , then activate "Display modifier in edit mode" and "Adjust edit cage to modifer result. 4 clear selection, select armature (single bone) , in pose mode, translate bone 7 unit and rotate bone. 5 now the cube mesh posed with bone. then go to edit mode. we can see visual transformed positon of mesh verts 6 "transform problems" with gizmo, pivot, and trasform axis. ``` Select one vertex of cube, then activate "move tool" ,with set pivot as Active Elements. As visual infomation, we can see selected vertex keep the posed position. but Gizmo never locate on the vertex place. though we can still transform , if the mesh hardly posed we may not see gizmo in current UI. without we adjust view. ``` Select one face of cube, then set Transform orientation as "Normal" , it never move face to current visuall face normal direction. just show non posed mesh face normals. (so all orientation just show non-posed mesh orientation) . Rotation and Scale have same issue . because axis and pivot just keep non posed direction with each option. we can never edit with visuall infomation. (axis line or current gizmo, and pivot) Of course Cusor to selected, just move cursor to Non posed selected elements position. (so can not use as pivot too) 7 "proportional editing problem" ``` When activate proportional edit, we need to check circle radius. but the radius circle locate on, Non defromed position. It cause difficult to adjust mesh verts with proportional edit. almost un-useful, when we need detail work. ``` ![visualtransform.JPG](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F6906672/visualtransform.JPG) Then, It is already reported, [Manipulator position is wrong while editing corrective shape keys ](https://developer.blender.org/T50597) This subject just leave it off as piority Normal. But it really important for modeling with modifier, and shape keys. (modify animated mesh etc etc,,) I really hope some developer try to solve this issue. (though I do not call it bug, but really important future, for editing mesh) at least change priority from "Normal" please.. , I expected blender 2.8 new dependency graph will solve this problem.

takeshi funahashi commented

2019-04-02 10:43:45 +02:00

Added subscriber: @TakeshiFunahashi

takeshi funahashi changed title from ~~Gizomo, pivot, axis, for manipulation need to show modifier applied position.~~ to Gizmo, pivot, axis, for manipulation need to show modifier applied mesh elements position.

2019-04-02 10:44:33 +02:00

William Reynish commented

2019-04-02 10:52:28 +02:00

Added subscriber: @WilliamReynish

William Reynish commented

2019-04-02 10:52:28 +02:00

I read this a few times, but found it quite hard to understand. Could you post a screen recording of the problem?

takeshi funahashi commented

2019-04-02 11:00:33 +02:00

I hope another developer check it again. Then if others need to scrren recording for this topic, I will do.

Campbell Barton was assigned by William Reynish

2019-04-02 11:01:15 +02:00

William Reynish commented

2019-04-02 11:01:15 +02:00

Added subscriber: @ideasman42

William Reynish commented

2019-04-02 11:01:15 +02:00

Ah, I think I get the issue. It's very simple: the gizmo location/orientation doesn't take modifiers, such as the Armature modifier, into account:

Here, the Monkey is offset by an Armature modifier, but the gizmo still uses the original, unmodified, location.

This was also the case in 2.79:

@ideasman42 I can also archive this if you don't think it's a bug. It's probably more just a limitation, although it's fairly noticeable with the Armature modifier specifically.

Ah, I think I get the issue. It's very simple: the gizmo location/orientation doesn't take modifiers, such as the Armature modifier, into account: ![Screenshot 2019-04-02 at 10.55.08.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F6906686/Screenshot_2019-04-02_at_10.55.08.png) Here, the Monkey is offset by an Armature modifier, but the gizmo still uses the original, unmodified, location. This was also the case in 2.79: ![Screenshot 2019-04-02 at 10.58.18.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F6906692/Screenshot_2019-04-02_at_10.58.18.png) @ideasman42 I can also archive this if you don't think it's a bug. It's probably more just a limitation, although it's fairly noticeable with the Armature modifier specifically.

takeshi funahashi commented

2019-04-02 11:10:42 +02:00

Sorry my manner. for non native user, sometimes report detail need more time. But It never just a limitation. Have you ever edit armatered mesh for animation etc?
Why I ask it, I believe priority not depend by developer. Of course I can only ask develpers to slove problems.

Sorry my manner. for non native user, sometimes report detail need more time. But It never just a limitation. Have you ever edit armatered mesh for animation etc? Why I ask it, I believe priority not depend by developer. Of course I can only ask develpers to slove problems.

Brecht Van Lommel commented

2019-04-02 11:30:25 +02:00

Closed as duplicate of #50597

Brecht Van Lommel closed this issue

2019-04-02 11:30:25 +02:00

Brecht Van Lommel commented

2019-04-02 11:30:50 +02:00

Added subscriber: @brecht

Brecht Van Lommel commented

2019-04-02 11:30:50 +02:00

We already have a bug report open for this, no need to create a second one. Just leave a comment in the existing one.

takeshi funahashi commented

2019-04-02 11:35:47 +02:00

Of course. but developers keep priority as normal. I afraid, there will be no developer to solve it.

William Reynish commented

2019-04-02 11:39:51 +02:00

@TakeshiFunahashi It isn't really a bug, just more of a current limitation. It would be nice if gizmos would take modifiers into account, but it's probably not completely trivial to support all kinds of modifiers.

Ludvik Koutny commented

2019-04-02 12:11:45 +02:00

Added subscriber: @Rawalanche

Ludvik Koutny commented

2019-04-02 12:11:45 +02:00

In #63212#653280, @WilliamReynish wrote:
@TakeshiFunahashi It isn't really a bug, just more of a current limitation. It would be nice if gizmos would take modifiers into account, but it's probably not completely trivial to support all kinds of modifiers.

I would say this is kind of half-bug. It's caused by the fact that the pivot point setting works in mesh edit mode, but does not work in object mode. For example:

If you set pivot point in object mode to cursor, then the transform gizmo correctly appears at the location of cursor, and is transformed from the cursor position:

If you set pivot point mode to active element, then it gets correctly transformed from the active origin and the gizmo is correctly placed at the origin:

Same applies with individual origins mode, where the gizmo is correctly placed at the average location of the multiple objects' origins and transformed from there:

The issue comes in case of the Bounding Box Center mode, which does not make sense in case of single object, and does the same thing as as active element mode:

If this mode worked correctly, and placed the transform gizmo at the center of the selected geometry bounding box, the issue in this report would pretty much be solved. All other 3D packages have at least one pivot mode, where you can transform the objects from the center of their geometric bounding box, instead of origin.

Lastly, on a bit unrelated note, the current naming is quite confusing. What in other 3D apps is called "pivot" is called "origin" in Blender, and what it other 3D apps is called something like "selection/manipulation center/point" is called "pivot" in Blender. The yellow dot on the objects in object mode, which defines their origin should be actually called pivot, and what is currently called pivot should be called something like manipulation point, or selection center, or something like that :)

> In #63212#653280, @WilliamReynish wrote: > @TakeshiFunahashi It isn't really a bug, just more of a current limitation. It would be nice if gizmos would take modifiers into account, but it's probably not completely trivial to support all kinds of modifiers. I would say this is kind of half-bug. It's caused by the fact that the pivot point setting works in mesh edit mode, but does not work in object mode. For example: If you set pivot point in object mode to cursor, then the transform gizmo correctly appears at the location of cursor, and is transformed from the cursor position: ![image.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F6906937/image.png) If you set pivot point mode to active element, then it gets correctly transformed from the active origin and the gizmo is correctly placed at the origin: ![image.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F6906942/image.png) Same applies with individual origins mode, where the gizmo is correctly placed at the average location of the multiple objects' origins and transformed from there: ![image.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F6906945/image.png) The issue comes in case of the Bounding Box Center mode, which does not make sense in case of single object, and does the same thing as as active element mode: ![image.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F6906947/image.png) If this mode worked correctly, and placed the transform gizmo at the center of the selected geometry bounding box, the issue in this report would pretty much be solved. All other 3D packages have at least one pivot mode, where you can transform the objects from the center of their geometric bounding box, instead of origin. Lastly, on a bit unrelated note, the current naming is quite confusing. What in other 3D apps is called "pivot" is called "origin" in Blender, and what it other 3D apps is called something like "selection/manipulation center/point" is called "pivot" in Blender. The yellow dot on the objects in object mode, which defines their origin should be actually called pivot, and what is currently called pivot should be called something like manipulation point, or selection center, or something like that :)

William Reynish commented

2019-04-02 12:16:45 +02:00

@Rawalanche All of that is actually unrelated to this issue, which is that modifiers aren’t taken into account. Changing any of those things won’t solve the problem of modifiers and gizmos.

Ludvik Koutny commented

2019-04-02 14:11:12 +02:00

In #63212#653306, @WilliamReynish wrote:
@Rawalanche All of that is actually unrelated to this issue, which is that modifiers aren’t taken into account. Changing any of those things won’t solve the problem of modifiers and gizmos.

It would, if the bounding box pivot mode would be defined by the bounding box of the actual geometry. In that case, gizmo would always appear in the center of the object geometry, regardless of where the origin is.

> In #63212#653306, @WilliamReynish wrote: > @Rawalanche All of that is actually unrelated to this issue, which is that modifiers aren’t taken into account. Changing any of those things won’t solve the problem of modifiers and gizmos. It would, if the bounding box pivot mode would be defined by the bounding box of the actual geometry. In that case, gizmo would always appear in the center of the object geometry, regardless of where the origin is.

Brecht Van Lommel commented

2019-04-02 14:30:21 +02:00

I don't see how what you explain relates to armature modifiers in edit mode at all. The difficulty is to position and rotate the gizmo along with the armature deform, and to do the inverse when applying the gizmo transform to vertices.

Ludvik Koutny commented

2019-04-02 20:09:29 +02:00

In #63212#653411, @brecht wrote:
I don't see how what you explain relates to armature modifiers in edit mode at all. The difficulty is to position and rotate the gizmo along with the armature deform, and to do the inverse when applying the gizmo transform to vertices.

Yeah, you are right. Sorry, did not read carefully enough.

> In #63212#653411, @brecht wrote: > I don't see how what you explain relates to armature modifiers in edit mode at all. The difficulty is to position and rotate the gizmo along with the armature deform, and to do the inverse when applying the gizmo transform to vertices. Yeah, you are right. Sorry, did not read carefully enough.

Pierre-Armand Nicq commented

2019-05-08 14:56:43 +02:00

Added subscriber: @Panicq

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Gizmo, pivot, axis, for manipulation need to show modifier applied mesh elements position. #63212