Armature X-Mirror inconsistencies #65671

New Issue

Demeter Dzadik · 2019-06-09T22:20:38+02:00

Demeter Dzadik commented

2019-06-09 22:20:38 +02:00

Certain bone properties are not affected by the X-Mirror setting. Which properties were and which weren't affected used to be extremely random and terrible, but a lot of improvements have been made, and now you could sum up the remaining unaffected properties as "bone properties which have no immediate visual effect in the 3D viewport." So, although a lot better than before, it is at least a little bit confusing, since the criteria is so specific and unintuitive.

These properties are:

envelope_weight
use_envelope_multiply
use_deform
connected *
lock **
use_local_location
use_endroll_as_inroll
inherit_scale
use_inherit_rotation

bbone_handle_type_start
bbone_custom_handle_start
bbone_handle_type_end
bbone_custom_handle_end

*: Even if you argue that the Connected checkbox itself shouldn't be mirrored, the checkbox has the potential to change the bone's transforms, and these transform changes don't get mirrored until the bone is interacted, and the interaction is finished(not cancelled)
** Is this option anywhere in the UI? It seems useful, but I only found it by looking at the pyAPI.

So I think there are a few options:

Accept that these options are not affected by X-Mirror and document it in the wiki, either listing them out one by one or using the hopefully accurate description of "properties that don't show up in the viewport".
Make X-Mirror affect these options.
Add another checkbox next to X-Mirror along the lines of "Include ALL bone properties".

Certain bone properties are not affected by the X-Mirror setting. Which properties were and which weren't affected used to be extremely random and terrible, but a lot of improvements have been made, and now you could sum up the remaining unaffected properties as "bone properties which have no immediate visual effect in the 3D viewport." So, although a lot better than before, it is at least a little bit confusing, since the criteria is so specific and unintuitive. These properties are: ``` envelope_weight use_envelope_multiply use_deform connected * lock ** use_local_location use_endroll_as_inroll inherit_scale use_inherit_rotation bbone_handle_type_start bbone_custom_handle_start bbone_handle_type_end bbone_custom_handle_end ``` *: Even if you argue that the Connected checkbox itself shouldn't be mirrored, the checkbox has the potential to change the bone's transforms, and these transform changes don't get mirrored until the bone is interacted, and the interaction is finished(not cancelled) ** Is this option anywhere in the UI? It seems useful, but I only found it by looking at the pyAPI. So I think there are a few options: - Accept that these options are not affected by X-Mirror and document it in the wiki, either listing them out one by one or using the hopefully accurate description of "properties that don't show up in the viewport". - Make X-Mirror affect these options. - Add another checkbox next to X-Mirror along the lines of "Include ALL bone properties".

Demeter Dzadik commented

2019-06-09 22:20:38 +02:00

Added subscriber: @Mets

Demeter Dzadik changed title from ~~Armature X-Mirror inconsistencies (Edit Mode)~~ to Armature X-Mirror inconsistencies

2019-06-09 22:44:32 +02:00

blender-admin commented

2019-06-11 14:41:18 +02:00

This issue was referenced by 3a6f6c87e0

This issue was referenced by 3a6f6c87e051edd3e98c92428980a52bafd7abf0

Germano Cavalcante commented

2019-06-11 14:41:47 +02:00

Changed status from 'Open' to: 'Resolved'

Germano Cavalcante closed this issue

2019-06-11 14:41:47 +02:00

Demeter Dzadik commented

2019-06-11 16:37:46 +02:00

Thanks for the patch!

I went and tested everything, there are still problems in here.

The following seem to be fixed and work perfectly:

head_radius
head[1]
head[2]
tail[1]
tail[2]

envelope_distance has changed behaviour from not being mirrored at all, to only being mirrored after a finished interaction. This could be #65669 but what makes me not think so is that the interaction has to be finished, so I don't think it's a drawing problem.

tail_radius and all bbone properties still seem to have the same problems as before, with either only being mirrored after interaction, or not being mirrored at all, except curveinx, curveoutx, rollin, rollout, which work but seem to be missing viewport update.

Except for envelope distance, things that didn't get mirrored before still don't get mirrored (again, maybe these are not a bug, but I think they should be)

Thanks for the patch! I went and tested everything, there are still problems in here. The following seem to be fixed and work perfectly: ``` head_radius head[1] head[2] tail[1] tail[2] ``` `envelope_distance` has changed behaviour from not being mirrored at all, to only being mirrored after a finished interaction. This could be #65669 but what makes me not think so is that the interaction has to be finished, so I don't think it's a drawing problem. `tail_radius` and all bbone properties still seem to have the same problems as before, with either only being mirrored after interaction, or not being mirrored at all, except `curveinx, curveoutx, rollin, rollout`, which work but seem to be missing viewport update. Except for `envelope distance`, things that didn't get mirrored before still don't get mirrored (again, maybe these are not a bug, but I think they should be)

Demeter Dzadik commented

2019-06-11 16:41:28 +02:00

Changed status from 'Resolved' to: 'Open'

Demeter Dzadik reopened this issue

2019-06-11 16:41:28 +02:00

Demeter Dzadik commented

2019-06-11 16:41:28 +02:00

Added subscriber: @ZedDB

Demeter Dzadik commented

2019-06-11 16:41:28 +02:00

@ZedDB suggested to re-open and edit the report with strike-throughs, so I'm doing that.

blender-admin commented

2019-08-21 09:59:11 +02:00

This issue was referenced by f041d2f116

This issue was referenced by f041d2f1163c36d9831b223d61e5740f43c00a13

Sebastian Parborg commented

2019-08-21 10:02:44 +02:00

Changed status from 'Open' to: 'Resolved'

Sebastian Parborg closed this issue

2019-08-21 10:02:44 +02:00

Sebastian Parborg self-assigned this 2019-08-21 10:02:44 +02:00

Demeter Dzadik commented

2019-08-21 14:30:37 +02:00

Changed status from 'Resolved' to: 'Open'

Demeter Dzadik reopened this issue

2019-08-21 14:30:37 +02:00

Demeter Dzadik commented

2019-08-21 14:30:37 +02:00

Re-opening again since Pose mode mirroring still needs work.

The thing is though, instead of having a "Pose Mode X-Mirror" and an "Edit Mode X-Mirror", it should be reworked to a "Pose Data X-Mirror" and "Bone Data X-Mirror". This is because some properties don't really belong to either pose or edit mode.

These are:

BBone Segments
BBone X/Z Display Size
BBone "Inherit End Roll" checkbox
Envelope Distance
Envelope Weight (which is still not being mirrored at all, because I wasn't sure if it would be a good idea. But I think it would be afterall.)
Radius Head (which seems to have an issue with updating the mirrored bone when parents are connected. This is because the parent's tail radius overwrites the connected child's head radius, but the mirroring logic actually affects the parent's tail radius in an attempt to be smart. It should probably do nothing, and the slider itself should be grayed out in this case.)
Radius Tail
Deform (also not being mirrored at all, same reason as Envelope Weight)
BBone handle settings (Same here)

"Bone Data X-Mirror" would mirror these, as well as edit mode properties, irrespective of what mode you're actually in. "Pose Data X-Mirror" would only mirror properties that belong to the pose bone.
(Feedback on this idea would be welcome. @ZedDB ? )

So to really have proper armature symmetry tools, it needs a bit of work. I'd like to give it a shot when I can find time, which is probably not soon.

Having Relative mirror work outside of operators (so, when changing UI sliders) is also another can of worms which I don't really want to touch.

Re-opening again since Pose mode mirroring still needs work. The thing is though, instead of having a "Pose Mode X-Mirror" and an "Edit Mode X-Mirror", it should be reworked to a "Pose Data X-Mirror" and "Bone Data X-Mirror". This is because some properties don't really belong to either pose or edit mode. These are: - BBone Segments - BBone X/Z Display Size - BBone "Inherit End Roll" checkbox - Envelope Distance - Envelope Weight (which is still not being mirrored at all, because I wasn't sure if it would be a good idea. But I think it would be afterall.) - Radius Head (which seems to have an issue with updating the mirrored bone when parents are connected. This is because the parent's tail radius overwrites the connected child's head radius, but the mirroring logic actually affects the parent's tail radius in an attempt to be smart. It should probably do nothing, and the slider itself should be grayed out in this case.) - Radius Tail - Deform (also not being mirrored at all, same reason as Envelope Weight) - BBone handle settings (Same here) "Bone Data X-Mirror" would mirror these, as well as edit mode properties, irrespective of what mode you're actually in. "Pose Data X-Mirror" would only mirror properties that belong to the pose bone. (Feedback on this idea would be welcome. @ZedDB ? ) So to really have proper armature symmetry tools, it needs a bit of work. I'd like to give it a shot when I can find time, which is probably not soon. Having Relative mirror work outside of operators (so, when changing UI sliders) is also another can of worms which I don't really want to touch.

Sebastian Parborg commented

2019-08-26 20:01:38 +02:00

I think that we should probably look at if we shouldn't treat these things like the other bone attributes in pose mode. IE they would be applied to the edit mode properties so it would be more of a delta value instead.

Sebastian Parborg was unassigned by Dalai Felinto

2019-12-23 16:34:09 +01:00

Germano Cavalcante commented

2020-02-04 14:19:38 +01:00

Added subscriber: @mano-wii

Germano Cavalcante commented

2020-02-04 14:19:38 +01:00

X-Mirror does not work when changing properties in Pose Mode.
This is not a bug, it just hasn't been implemented.
It is also not a simple task.

But it would be a good addition, so marking To Do.

X-Mirror does not work when changing properties in Pose Mode. This is not a bug, it just hasn't been implemented. It is also not a simple task. But it would be a good addition, so marking `To Do`.

Demeter Dzadik commented

2020-11-12 15:51:30 +01:00

I think all the "this is clearly a bug" aspects of this report have been addressed, and the issues that remain are more of a design question, so I edited this report accordingly.

Erick Tukuniata commented

2020-11-12 15:57:38 +01:00

Added subscriber: @ErickNyanduKabongo

Juan Pablo Bouza commented

2020-11-12 16:37:29 +01:00

Added subscriber: @jpbouza-4

Philipp Oeser removed the

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Armature X-Mirror inconsistencies #65671