Bendy Bone Parameters excluded from "In-Betweens" and "Action Constraints" #71002

New Issue

Darryl F Neal · 2019-10-21T21:08:36+02:00

Darryl F Neal commented

2019-10-21 21:08:36 +02:00

System Information
Operating system: Win 10 Home
Graphics card: Nvidia 960M

Blender Version
Broken: (2.80, 2.81)

Currently the "In-Betweens" and "Action Constraints" functions within blender do not take the "Bendy Bone" parameters into consideration with keyframes

The timeline, however does take the parameters into consideration with keyframes. The image and file below show the results.

The keyframing setting used was the "whole character" selection which includes the bendy bone parameters.

- Steps to re creating this problem below---

Create a bendy bone
Select the (stretch -to) middle bone in the bendy bone
On frame 1 keyframe the bendy bone using Whole character (selected bones only)
Notice that all of the bendy bone properties except the “scale in x”, “Scale in y”, “Scale out x”, “scale out y” don’t get highlighted? (Be sure to click “animate property” on ALL of the scaling options too).
Manipulate every parameter in the “Bendy Bone” section.
Scrub the “timeline” between the two frames. Notice that all of the parameters for the bones will change from maximum to minimum?
Move to your final frame, and select the “in-betweens” function from the pose menu.
Click your task bar below to make the menu stay open, as shown in the attached image.
Scrub the in-betweens bar from 0 to 1 and notice that (None) of the bendy bone parameters are taken into consideration.

This problem also persists if you attempt to use an action constraint as well!

Takeaways:

The Bendy bone properties of the stretch-to bone inside Bendy bones cannot be animated with Action constraints, or altered by the “in-betweens” function in Blender. I have also tried the same test in Blender 2.81 as well.

Addition as of 11/21/2019: Action Constraints in Blender 2.81 (don't work at all anymore it seems). So you may not even get to reproduce the issue unless you specifically use Blender 2.8

bbones2.blend

System Information Operating system: Win 10 Home Graphics card: Nvidia 960M Blender Version Broken: (2.80, 2.81) Currently the "In-Betweens" and "Action Constraints" functions within blender do not take the "Bendy Bone" parameters into consideration with keyframes The timeline, however does take the parameters into consideration with keyframes. The image and file below show the results. The keyframing setting used was the "whole character" selection which includes the bendy bone parameters. - Steps to re creating this problem below--- 1. Create a bendy bone 2. Select the (stretch -to) middle bone in the bendy bone 3. On frame 1 keyframe the bendy bone using Whole character (selected bones only) 4. Notice that all of the bendy bone properties except the “scale in x”, “Scale in y”, “Scale out x”, “scale out y” don’t get highlighted? (Be sure to click “animate property” on ALL of the scaling options too). 5. Manipulate every parameter in the “Bendy Bone” section. 6. Scrub the “timeline” between the two frames. Notice that all of the parameters for the bones will change from maximum to minimum? 7. Move to your final frame, and select the “in-betweens” function from the pose menu. 8. Click your task bar below to make the menu stay open, as shown in the attached image. 9. Scrub the in-betweens bar from 0 to 1 and notice that (None) of the bendy bone parameters are taken into consideration. This problem also persists if you attempt to use an action constraint as well! Takeaways: The Bendy bone properties of the stretch-to bone inside Bendy bones cannot be animated with Action constraints, or altered by the “in-betweens” function in Blender. I have also tried the same test in Blender 2.81 as well. **Addition as of 11/21/2019: Action Constraints in Blender 2.81 (don't work at all anymore it seems). So you may not even get to reproduce the issue unless you specifically use Blender 2.8** ![stretch_to.jpg](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F7844595/stretch_to.jpg) [bbones2.blend](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F7844594/bbones2.blend)

Darryl F Neal commented

2019-10-21 21:08:36 +02:00

Added subscriber: @dfneal38

Germano Cavalcante commented

2019-11-04 13:31:07 +01:00

Added subscribers: @JoshuaLeung, @dr.sybren, @mano-wii

Germano Cavalcante commented

2019-11-04 13:31:07 +01:00

@dr.sybren or @JoshuaLeung, can you confirm this bug? (I'm not sure how these tools work).

Darryl F Neal commented

2019-11-04 16:42:21 +01:00

If the team is still unsure, I can make a bigger demonstration in a few hours. I am adamant about getting this fixed, so I can release a facial rigging addon that involves animating (all) of the bendy bone properties with Action Constraints with just a click.

Sybren A. Stüvel commented

2019-11-21 12:18:07 +01:00

Please update the task so that it follows the bug reporting guidelines. As it is now, it has no steps to reproduce the issue.

Please update the task so that it follows the [bug reporting guidelines](https://wiki.blender.org/wiki/Process/Bug_Reports). As it is now, it has no steps to reproduce the issue.

Darryl F Neal commented

2019-11-22 03:08:56 +01:00

I have now added steps to recreate the issue. It occurs in Blender 2.81 as well.

Sybren A. Stüvel was assigned by Darryl F Neal

2019-11-23 15:51:18 +01:00

Sybren A. Stüvel commented

2019-12-05 15:10:37 +01:00

@dfneal38 with "the in-betweens function", I'm assuming you mean "Push Pose from Rest Pose" and "Relax Pose to Rest Pose". The behaviour of these can be found in the pose_slide_rest_pose_apply() function, which shows that this isn't implemented for bendy bones yet. As such, it's not a bug, but simply a missing feature.

As far as the Action Constraint goes, the manual states:

Also note that only the object transformation (location, rotation, scale) is affected by the action, if the action contains keyframes for other properties they are ignored, as constraints do not influence those.

Unless I'm mistaken, this means that also the Action Constraint doesn't support bendy bone properties.

@dfneal38 with "the in-betweens function", I'm assuming you mean "Push Pose from Rest Pose" and "Relax Pose to Rest Pose". The behaviour of these can be found in [the `pose_slide_rest_pose_apply()` function](https://developer.blender.org/diffusion/B/browse/master/source/blender/editors/armature/pose_slide.c$659), which shows that this isn't implemented for bendy bones yet. As such, it's not a bug, but simply a missing feature. As far as the Action Constraint goes, [the manual](https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/animation/constraints/relationship/action.html) states: > Also note that only the object transformation (location, rotation, scale) is affected by the action, if the action contains keyframes for other properties they are ignored, as constraints do not influence those. Unless I'm mistaken, this means that also the Action Constraint doesn't support bendy bone properties.

Sybren A. Stüvel commented

2019-12-05 15:16:18 +01:00

I've marked the task as a 'To Do', because it doesn't appear to be a bug. If I drew the wrong conclusions, please let me know.

Darryl F Neal commented

2019-12-05 18:05:55 +01:00

In #71002#824343, @dr.sybren wrote:
I've marked the task as a 'To Do', because it doesn't appear to be a bug. If I drew the wrong conclusions, please let me know.

I had the problem marked as a bug, because the timeline can easily key-frame the parameters. My question is, if the timeline can animate a bone parameter, then why can't action constraints do the same? That sounds counter intuitive.

In order for me to properly animate this, i would literally need to create bone drivers onto the bendy parameters and then assign an action constraint to those additional bones. This means if i plan to animate a face, i would need an action constraint to run the bone pose and additionally the the bone pose that has drivers! That's super redundant for something that should be so simple.

My point is that bendy bones are bones, and action constraints are meant to be used on bones. Bendy bone properties should be possible to animate through this constraint by default. (Not being a bug would be sort of like saying a car with an engine, cannot accelerate yet). Don't you think?

Not to mention, specifically bendy bones can be used to rig faces with zero weight painting. I wanted to demonstrate this feature in a video and link it to a few places. Its especially helpful when a character asset has a proprietary rig and you need to quickly rig the face. (You can parent the bendy rig to the body rig, skipping hours of misery).

> In #71002#824343, @dr.sybren wrote: > I've marked the task as a 'To Do', because it doesn't appear to be a bug. If I drew the wrong conclusions, please let me know. I had the problem marked as a bug, because the timeline can easily key-frame the parameters. My question is, if the timeline can animate a bone parameter, then why can't action constraints do the same? That sounds counter intuitive. In order for me to properly animate this, i would literally need to create bone drivers onto the bendy parameters and then assign an action constraint to those additional bones. This means if i plan to animate a face, i would need an action constraint to run the bone pose and additionally the the bone pose that has drivers! That's super redundant for something that should be so simple. My point is that bendy bones are bones, and action constraints are meant to be used on bones. Bendy bone properties should be possible to animate through this constraint by default. (Not being a bug would be sort of like saying a car with an engine, cannot accelerate yet). Don't you think? Not to mention, specifically bendy bones can be used to rig faces with zero weight painting. I wanted to demonstrate this feature in a video and link it to a few places. Its especially helpful when a character asset has a proprietary rig and you need to quickly rig the face. (You can parent the bendy rig to the body rig, skipping hours of misery).

Sybren A. Stüvel commented

2019-12-05 18:10:46 +01:00

I wish that "intuitive behaviour" meant that it was also implemented. Unfortunately that's not the reality.

Not being a bug would be sort of like saying a car with an engine, cannot accelerate yet.

I would say it's like a car that works just fine but is a bit spartan, and then someone added a radio to it to make the trip a bit more pleasant, but which can only receive two radio channels. Sure, it's limited, but it works.

Maybe it's simple to implement, but the fact is that currently it isn't. It's an ommission, and in your case it seems to be a pretty big one, but it's not a bug.

I wish that "intuitive behaviour" meant that it was also implemented. Unfortunately that's not the reality. > Not being a bug would be sort of like saying a car with an engine, cannot accelerate yet. I would say it's like a car that works just fine but is a bit spartan, and then someone added a radio to it to make the trip a bit more pleasant, but which can only receive two radio channels. Sure, it's limited, but it works. Maybe it's simple to implement, but the fact is that currently it isn't. It's an ommission, and in your case it seems to be a pretty big one, but it's not a bug.

Darryl F Neal commented

2019-12-05 18:30:27 +01:00

In #71002#824656, @dr.sybren wrote:
I wish that "intuitive behaviour" meant that it was also implemented. Unfortunately that's not the reality.

Not being a bug would be sort of like saying a car with an engine, cannot accelerate yet.

I would say it's like a car that works just fine but is a bit spartan, and then someone added a radio to it to make the trip a bit more pleasant, but which can only receive two radio channels. Sure, it's limited, but it works.

Maybe it's simple to implement, but the fact is that currently it isn't. It's an ommission, and in your case it seems to be a pretty big one, but it's not a bug.

I mean its fine. So I take it other Blender 2.8 features are going to be whats being worked on for now, and when would you expect "extra" stuff to be looked at? I mean in 2020 assuming.

> In #71002#824656, @dr.sybren wrote: > I wish that "intuitive behaviour" meant that it was also implemented. Unfortunately that's not the reality. > >> Not being a bug would be sort of like saying a car with an engine, cannot accelerate yet. > > I would say it's like a car that works just fine but is a bit spartan, and then someone added a radio to it to make the trip a bit more pleasant, but which can only receive two radio channels. Sure, it's limited, but it works. > > Maybe it's simple to implement, but the fact is that currently it isn't. It's an ommission, and in your case it seems to be a pretty big one, but it's not a bug. I mean its fine. So I take it other Blender 2.8 features are going to be whats being worked on for now, and when would you expect "extra" stuff to be looked at? I mean in 2020 assuming.

Sybren A. Stüvel removed their assignment 2020-11-09 17:05:36 +01:00

Philipp Oeser removed the

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Bendy Bone Parameters excluded from "In-Betweens" and "Action Constraints" #71002