Wrap + displace + multires + Sculpt crash #71503

New Issue

Mobin · 2019-11-11T21:36:56+01:00

Mobin commented

2019-11-11 21:36:56 +01:00

Blender Version
Broken: version: 2.81 (sub 16), branch: master, commit date: 2019-11-04 22:14, hash: 95a60fe84d
Worked: 2.80

Short description of error
Adding wrap + displace + multires causes a crash

Exact steps for others to reproduce the error

Make a sphere with 2 empty and set up a wrap modifier
Add displacement modifier
Add multires modifier
Do 2 subdiv in the multires (notice mesh not changing)
Go to sculpt mode
Crash

OR open file, switch to sculpt mode and start sculpting:
bugrep02.blend

**Blender Version** Broken: version: 2.81 (sub 16), branch: master, commit date: 2019-11-04 22:14, hash: `95a60fe84d` Worked: 2.80 **Short description of error** Adding wrap + displace + multires causes a crash **Exact steps for others to reproduce the error** - Make a sphere with 2 empty and set up a wrap modifier - Add displacement modifier - Add multires modifier - Do 2 subdiv in the multires (notice mesh not changing) - Go to sculpt mode - Crash OR open file, switch to sculpt mode and start sculpting: [bugrep02.blend](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8039659/bugrep02.blend)

Mobin commented

2019-11-11 21:36:56 +01:00

Added subscriber: @Mobin-2

Mobin commented

2019-11-11 21:38:12 +01:00

here is a test file just add multires modifier
do 2 subdiv in the multires (notice mesh not changing)
go to sculpt mode
crash

bugrep01.blend

here is a test file just add multires modifier do 2 subdiv in the multires (notice mesh not changing) go to sculpt mode crash [bugrep01.blend](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8037166/bugrep01.blend)

Dalai Felinto commented

2019-11-12 00:17:29 +01:00

Added subscriber: @dfelinto

Dalai Felinto commented

2019-11-12 00:17:29 +01:00

Do 2 subdiv in the multires (notice mesh not changing)

Could you please clarify how you are doing that? Or even, attach a file right before going to sculpt.

> Do 2 subdiv in the multires (notice mesh not changing) Could you please clarify how you are doing that? Or even, attach a file right before going to sculpt.

Mobin commented

2019-11-12 01:35:54 +01:00

crashes after you go to sculpt mode.
works with no crash on 2.80 but crashes on 2.81
bugrep02.blend

crashes after you go to sculpt mode. works with no crash on 2.80 but crashes on 2.81 [bugrep02.blend](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8039659/bugrep02.blend)

Dalai Felinto commented

2019-11-12 03:24:20 +01:00

Added subscribers: @PabloDobarro, @Sergey

Dalai Felinto commented

2019-11-12 03:24:20 +01:00

I can confirm the crash.

@PabloDobarro I thought we have fixed all the multires bugs. Is this a know issue?

I can confirm the crash. @PabloDobarro I thought we have fixed all the multires bugs. Is this a know issue?

Dalai Felinto changed title from ~~wrap + displace + multires causes crash~~ to Wrap + displace + multires + Sculpt crash

2019-11-12 03:27:32 +01:00

Dalai Felinto commented

2019-11-12 03:28:26 +01:00

For the records, I think you may not even need the other modifiers, the multires alone seems to still break things. That said I need to rebuild blender with more libs to fully debug this, so considering the report triaged as it is.

Pablo Dobarro commented

2019-11-12 04:05:52 +01:00

Multires has a lot of issues and bugs when used combined with other modifiers. Maybe we can make it not crash by disabling some sculpting features in Multires (bad idea, as this is a unusual use case) or avoiding entering sculpt mode in some situations (like Multires + more modifiers or sculpting in a level other than the highest one).
I don't think we should spend time trying to debug and make proper fixes to bugs like this one (or doing any other Multires related development) before fixing studio/blender-studio#58473. Even if we fix all these crashes, Multires is going to keep breaking the models, making it unusable for its intended purpose. The end user is not going to get any real benefits from this development work.

Multires has a lot of issues and bugs when used combined with other modifiers. Maybe we can make it not crash by disabling some sculpting features in Multires (bad idea, as this is a unusual use case) or avoiding entering sculpt mode in some situations (like Multires + more modifiers or sculpting in a level other than the highest one). I don't think we should spend time trying to debug and make proper fixes to bugs like this one (or doing any other Multires related development) before fixing studio/blender-studio#58473. Even if we fix all these crashes, Multires is going to keep breaking the models, making it unusable for its intended purpose. The end user is not going to get any real benefits from this development work.

Dalai Felinto commented

2019-11-12 04:44:05 +01:00

Even if we fix all these crashes, Multires is going to keep breaking the models, making it unusable for its intended purpose. The end user is not going to get any real benefits from this development work.

I see your point, but I disagree here. Make it not crash is a real benefit, regardless of what made the users mix the modifiers. Broken files are ok-ish, lost work due to a crash is very costy in the end.

> Even if we fix all these crashes, Multires is going to keep breaking the models, making it unusable for its intended purpose. The end user is not going to get any real benefits from this development work. I see your point, but I disagree here. Make it not crash is a real benefit, regardless of what made the users mix the modifiers. Broken files are ok-ish, lost work due to a crash is very costy in the end.

Pablo Dobarro commented

2019-11-12 05:25:14 +01:00

studio/blender-studio#58473 is worse than any crash we currently have in terms of losing work. Saving wrong information and corrupting a file without knowing it is always much worse than a crash (you can always recover the last saved version). Current Blender users know that Multires is not suitable for sculpting, but new users may lose days of work without noticing it with that bug.

This is probably not really related to this task, but in my opinion, a fix or workaround for studio/blender-studio#58473 should block the release. I'm not aware of any other bug in Blender that is damaging an area of the software as badly as this one. We need to acknowledge that we have the most basic and fundamental feature of any sculpting software broken, so anything built on top of that is not going to benefit anyone. During the 2.81 development, multiple developers spend time on Multires related projects (optimizing it, porting the tools, Quadriflow..) that no one is going to be able to use in a real use case just because of that bug. In my opinion, we should have a way to detect and make a plan for this kind of issue earlier to prevent this from happening again.

studio/blender-studio#58473 is worse than any crash we currently have in terms of losing work. Saving wrong information and corrupting a file without knowing it is always much worse than a crash (you can always recover the last saved version). Current Blender users know that Multires is not suitable for sculpting, but new users may lose days of work without noticing it with that bug. This is probably not really related to this task, but in my opinion, a fix or workaround for studio/blender-studio#58473 should block the release. I'm not aware of any other bug in Blender that is damaging an area of the software as badly as this one. We need to acknowledge that we have the most basic and fundamental feature of any sculpting software broken, so anything built on top of that is not going to benefit anyone. During the 2.81 development, multiple developers spend time on Multires related projects (optimizing it, porting the tools, Quadriflow..) that no one is going to be able to use in a real use case just because of that bug. In my opinion, we should have a way to detect and make a plan for this kind of issue earlier to prevent this from happening again.

Mobin commented

2019-11-12 10:41:13 +01:00

just a quick Note: the bug will not happen if you toggle all or one of the before modifiers. (show wrap, hide displace OR hide wrap, show displace )
also never noticed this warning before:

Maybe a simple code of preventing users going to sculpt mode with this warning on is ok for now?

just a quick Note: the bug will not happen if you toggle all or one of the before modifiers. (show wrap, hide displace OR hide wrap, show displace ) also never noticed this warning before: ![Annotation 2019-11-12 130906.jpg](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8045605/Annotation_2019-11-12_130906.jpg) Maybe a simple code of preventing users going to sculpt mode with this warning on is ok for now?

blender-admin commented

2019-11-13 11:29:19 +01:00

This issue was referenced by ca1721270a

This issue was referenced by ca1721270a6d3fa8d67b59a014ab94004e24026b

Sergey Sharybin commented

2019-11-13 11:37:56 +01:00

Changed status from 'Open' to: 'Resolved'

Sergey Sharybin closed this issue

2019-11-13 11:37:56 +01:00

Sergey Sharybin self-assigned this 2019-11-13 11:37:56 +01:00

Erick Tukuniata commented

2019-11-13 12:04:16 +01:00

Added subscriber: @ErickNyanduKabongo

Erick Tukuniata commented

2019-11-13 12:04:16 +01:00

In #71503#809435, @PabloDobarro wrote:
Multires has a lot of issues and bugs when used combined with other modifiers. Maybe we can make it not crash by disabling some sculpting features in Multires (bad idea, as this is a unusual use case) or avoiding entering sculpt mode in some situations (like Multires + more modifiers or sculpting in a level other than the highest one).
I don't think we should spend time trying to debug and make proper fixes to bugs like this one (or doing any other Multires related development) before fixing studio/blender-studio#58473. Even if we fix all these crashes, Multires is going to keep breaking the models, making it unusable for its intended purpose. The end user is not going to get any real benefits from this development work.

I m wondering why we are not doing full multires. overhaul? Note that Multires. is the only tool in Blender that can help us to get more than 20 Millions polygons with responsive 3d viewport. In stand of turn off some features in multires. or adding more features in sculpt mode it will be good to rework multires.
For you to know there is old users using Multires. even in this " broken" state.

> In #71503#809435, @PabloDobarro wrote: > Multires has a lot of issues and bugs when used combined with other modifiers. Maybe we can make it not crash by disabling some sculpting features in Multires (bad idea, as this is a unusual use case) or avoiding entering sculpt mode in some situations (like Multires + more modifiers or sculpting in a level other than the highest one). > I don't think we should spend time trying to debug and make proper fixes to bugs like this one (or doing any other Multires related development) before fixing studio/blender-studio#58473. Even if we fix all these crashes, Multires is going to keep breaking the models, making it unusable for its intended purpose. The end user is not going to get any real benefits from this development work. I m wondering why we are not doing full multires. overhaul? Note that Multires. is the only tool in Blender that can help us to get more than 20 Millions polygons with responsive 3d viewport. In stand of turn off some features in multires. or adding more features in sculpt mode it will be good to rework multires. For you to know there is old users using Multires. even in this " broken" state.

Thomas Dinges added this to the 2.81 milestone 2023-02-08 16:46:55 +01:00

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Wrap + displace + multires + Sculpt crash #71503