Noise seems to break / negate pre-roll on smoke sim #72214

New Issue

Mark Spink · 2019-12-06T03:21:09+01:00

Mark Spink commented

2019-12-06 03:21:09 +01:00

System Information
Operating system: Windows-10-10.0.18362 64 Bits
Graphics card: GeForce GTX 1070 Ti/PCIe/SSE2 NVIDIA Corporation 4.5.0 NVIDIA 436.48

Blender Version
Broken: version: 2.82 (sub 1), branch: fluid-mantaflow, commit date: 2019-11-26 22:21, hash: 0ca44974c9
Worked: (optional)

Short description of error
[adding noise to a smoke sim seems to break / ignore / negate any pre-roll frames you have set.
Like this-
NoiseBreaksPreRoll.mp4
Here is the same sim with & without noise. The sim was set to start at frame -65 in the cache settings, then I changed it to -100 as I initially thought that I just needed more pre-roll, but nothing changed.
As you can see in the left hand image, the smoke is showing top to bottom, the reason I used a pre-roll. While with noise it developes from the bottom up as if no pre-roll were used.
I observed the playhead while baking the noise, and it went through the frames from -100 - 0 very quickly, stayed on frame 0 for quite a pause, then went through from frame 1 - 250 at a more normal speed (as if it were actually doing something).
This sim was originally baked using adaptive domain, but when noise was added it still behaves with the issue in #69870, the smoke jumped position several times during the animation after noise was added.]

Exact steps for others to reproduce the error
[Bake the attached and observe...]
[Based on the default startup or an attached .blend file (as simple as possible){F8192972}]

**System Information** Operating system: Windows-10-10.0.18362 64 Bits Graphics card: GeForce GTX 1070 Ti/PCIe/SSE2 NVIDIA Corporation 4.5.0 NVIDIA 436.48 **Blender Version** Broken: version: 2.82 (sub 1), branch: fluid-mantaflow, commit date: 2019-11-26 22:21, hash: `0ca44974c9` Worked: (optional) **Short description of error** [adding noise to a smoke sim seems to break / ignore / negate any pre-roll frames you have set. Like this- [NoiseBreaksPreRoll.mp4](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8192969/NoiseBreaksPreRoll.mp4) Here is the same sim with & without noise. The sim was set to start at frame -65 in the cache settings, then I changed it to -100 as I initially thought that I just needed more pre-roll, but nothing changed. As you can see in the left hand image, the smoke is showing top to bottom, the reason I used a pre-roll. While with noise it developes from the bottom up as if no pre-roll were used. I observed the playhead while baking the noise, and it went through the frames from -100 - 0 very quickly, stayed on frame 0 for quite a pause, then went through from frame 1 - 250 at a more normal speed (as if it were actually doing something). This sim was originally baked using adaptive domain, but when noise was added it still behaves with the issue in #69870, the smoke jumped position several times during the animation after noise was added.] **Exact steps for others to reproduce the error** [Bake the attached and observe...] [Based on the default startup or an attached .blend file (as simple as possible){[F8192972](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8192972/NoiseBreaksPreRoll.blend)}]

Mark Spink commented

2019-12-06 03:21:09 +01:00

Added subscriber: @marks-4

Germano Cavalcante commented

2019-12-11 20:10:05 +01:00

Added subscriber: @mano-wii

Germano Cavalcante commented

2019-12-11 20:10:05 +01:00

If I'm not mistaken, negative frames never worked before.
This is a known limitation not only with smoke simulation, but particulate system, clothing and other physics.

But I may be wrong.

If I'm not mistaken, negative frames never worked before. This is a known limitation not only with smoke simulation, but particulate system, clothing and other physics. But I may be wrong.

Mark Spink commented

2019-12-13 01:16:06 +01:00

Worked in the old smoke sim, still does in Mantaflow, but breaks when noise added.
Here you go-
OldSmokePrerollHiRez.mp4
So basically the original Mantaflow blend file from above, loaded into V2.81 Vanilla release, and smoke re-added to the domain, emitter (sphere) & Ground.
Then baked with no pre-roll (Simulation Start 1 in Cache), then again with pre-roll (Simulation Start -80 in Cache), then with pre-roll and HiRez (assuming HiRez to be the equivalent of 'noise' in Mantaflow Smoke).

So Both systems, old & Mantaflow, use the pre-roll for the smoke sim, but Mantaflow breaks/negates the pre-roll when noise is added to the smoke.

Here's the .blend
OldSmokePreRoll.blend

Worked in the old smoke sim, still does in Mantaflow, but breaks when noise added. Here you go- [OldSmokePrerollHiRez.mp4](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8214479/OldSmokePrerollHiRez.mp4) So basically the original Mantaflow blend file from above, loaded into V2.81 Vanilla release, and smoke re-added to the domain, emitter (sphere) & Ground. Then baked with no pre-roll (Simulation Start 1 in Cache), then again with pre-roll (Simulation Start -80 in Cache), then with pre-roll and HiRez (assuming HiRez to be the equivalent of 'noise' in Mantaflow Smoke). So Both systems, old & Mantaflow, use the pre-roll for the smoke sim, but Mantaflow breaks/negates the pre-roll when noise is added to the smoke. Here's the .blend [OldSmokePreRoll.blend](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8214498/OldSmokePreRoll.blend)

Sebastián Barschkis was assigned by Germano Cavalcante

2019-12-16 17:52:07 +01:00

Mark Spink commented

2019-12-21 04:07:43 +01:00

Hello All

Just FYI; I tried the scene in the new 16-12-2019 build and noise still negates any pre-roll in the smoke sim after re-adding Mantaflow to the relevent objects.
SmokePreroll_16-12-19-Build.mp4
Here's the blend file-
NoiseBreaksPreRoll_16-12.blend

Hello All Just FYI; I tried the scene in the new 16-12-2019 build and noise still negates any pre-roll in the smoke sim after re-adding Mantaflow to the relevent objects. [SmokePreroll_16-12-19-Build.mp4](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8238497/SmokePreroll_16-12-19-Build.mp4) Here's the blend file- [NoiseBreaksPreRoll_16-12.blend](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8238499/NoiseBreaksPreRoll_16-12.blend)

Germano Cavalcante commented

2020-01-15 13:59:11 +01:00

Changed status from 'Needs Triage' to: 'Needs User Info'

Sebastián Barschkis was unassigned by Germano Cavalcante

2020-01-15 13:59:11 +01:00

Germano Cavalcante commented

2020-01-15 13:59:11 +01:00

Added subscriber: @sebbas

Germano Cavalcante commented

2020-01-15 13:59:11 +01:00

Could you edit the report description, update the file and briefly describe how to reproduce the problem?
I tried to reproduce the problem, but it consumes a lot of time.
Maybe it is even better to create another report.

Could you edit the report description, update the file and briefly describe how to reproduce the problem? I tried to reproduce the problem, but it consumes a lot of time. Maybe it is even better to create another report.

Mark Spink commented

2020-01-16 03:48:23 +01:00

Here you go-
2020-01-16 13-39-51.mp4

And here's the simple .blend-
NoiseBreaksPreRollSimple.blend

You can try to increase the preroll to say -75 as the start frame in the cache field and you will get the same result. You can even see the playhead when you bake the noise; it starts from frame 1 (or maybe 0), definitely not where the cache has been set to start from.

I'm using this version in the above clip & .blend-

Here you go- [2020-01-16 13-39-51.mp4](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8281012/2020-01-16_13-39-51.mp4) And here's the simple .blend- [NoiseBreaksPreRollSimple.blend](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8281013/NoiseBreaksPreRollSimple.blend) You can try to increase the preroll to say -75 as the start frame in the cache field and you will get the same result. You can even see the playhead when you bake the noise; it starts from frame 1 (or maybe 0), definitely not where the cache has been set to start from. I'm using this version in the above clip & .blend- ![2.82Version.JPG](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8281016/2.82Version.JPG)

Richard Antalik commented

2020-01-17 00:05:51 +01:00

Changed status from 'Needs User Info' to: 'Confirmed'

Ted Schundler commented

2020-01-21 03:04:01 +01:00

Added subscriber: @TedSchundler

Mark Spink commented

2020-01-21 03:30:32 +01:00

Thanks Ted! What does that token actually mean though?...

Thanks Ted! *What does that token actually mean though?...*

Mark Spink commented

2020-01-24 17:25:10 +01:00

This still happens in version: 2.82 (sub 6), branch: master, commit date: 2020-01-23 15:59, hash: 517870a4a1 I'm afraid-
SmokeTwitch_Twister.mp4

Here's the scene file as used in the above-
SandTwister.blend

This still happens in version: 2.82 (sub 6), branch: master, commit date: 2020-01-23 15:59, hash: `517870a4a1` I'm afraid- [SmokeTwitch_Twister.mp4](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8299678/SmokeTwitch_Twister.mp4) Here's the scene file as used in the above- [SandTwister.blend](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8299671/SandTwister.blend)

Mark Spink commented

2020-02-03 05:10:46 +01:00

Hello. this issue still exists in the Feb 3rd Build.

Hello. this issue still exists in the Feb 3rd Build. ![PreRoll_With-WithoutNoise_Feb3rd-Build.jpg](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8318343/PreRoll_With-WithoutNoise_Feb3rd-Build.jpg)

Mark Spink commented

2020-02-04 14:47:46 +01:00

Hello. this issue still exists in the Feb 4th Build.

Still happens with the 'simple' blend file uploaded above as well-
2020-02-05 00-56-47.mp4

Hello. this issue still exists in the Feb 4th Build. ![PreRoll_With-WithoutNoise_Feb4th-Build.jpg](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8320801/PreRoll_With-WithoutNoise_Feb4th-Build.jpg) Still happens with the 'simple' blend file uploaded above as well- [2020-02-05 00-56-47.mp4](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8320810/2020-02-05_00-56-47.mp4)

Mark Spink commented

2020-02-16 01:23:32 +01:00

Hello, this still happens in the 2.82 release build-

Here's the 'simple' blend again-
NoiseBreaksPreRollSimple.blend

Just bake it, then bake the noise and enable/disable the noise (obviously move the playhead to refresh the viewport if you're using cycles, not necessary in 'solid' view, or Lookdev/Eevee- not sure if this is a separate bug or a feature?!?)

@sebbas same question, for the same reasons as in #73232: assuming the 2.82 release build is effectively static, if this is the case- is there any way of knowing when the 2.83 alpha/beta build has been changed WRT Mantaflow?

Hello, this still happens in the 2.82 release build- ![PreRoll_WithoutNoise_2.82-release-Build.JPG](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8342516/PreRoll_WithoutNoise_2.82-release-Build.JPG) ![PreRoll_WithNoise_2.82-release-Build.JPG](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8342518/PreRoll_WithNoise_2.82-release-Build.JPG) Here's the 'simple' blend again- [NoiseBreaksPreRollSimple.blend](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8342520/NoiseBreaksPreRollSimple.blend) Just bake it, then bake the noise and enable/disable the noise (obviously move the playhead to refresh the viewport if you're using cycles, not necessary in 'solid' view, or Lookdev/Eevee- not sure if this is a separate bug or a feature?!?) @sebbas same question, for the same reasons as in #73232: assuming the 2.82 release build is effectively static, if this is the case- is there any way of knowing when the 2.83 alpha/beta build has been changed WRT Mantaflow?

Mark Spink commented

2020-02-19 09:09:15 +01:00

Hello, this still happens in the Feb 18 build of 2.83alpha
2020-02-19 19-06-51.mp4

Hello, this still happens in the Feb 18 build of 2.83alpha ![2.83Version.JPG](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8349889/2.83Version.JPG) [2020-02-19 19-06-51.mp4](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8349888/2020-02-19_19-06-51.mp4)

Mark Spink commented

2020-02-23 01:17:08 +01:00

Hello, this still happens in the Feb21 build-
Without Noise:

With Noise:

This build-

I also get a lot (most times I try in fact) of crash-on-load crashes in this build, trying to load previous build Mantaflow scenes. I had to append all the objects into a new scene to actually load the scene in #74062, I could not load the scene without an instant crash. It loaded fine into the previous build.

Hello, this still happens in the Feb21 build- Without Noise: ![WithoutNoise.JPG](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8363615/WithoutNoise.JPG) With Noise: ![WithNoise.JPG](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8363617/WithNoise.JPG) This build- ![V2.83.JPG](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8363619/V2.83.JPG) I also get a lot (most times I try in fact) of crash-on-load crashes in this build, trying to load previous build Mantaflow scenes. I had to append all the objects into a new scene to actually load the scene in #74062, I could not load the scene without an instant crash. It loaded fine into the previous build.

Mark Spink commented

2020-03-03 01:54:53 +01:00

Hello, this still seems to be an issue with the March 2nd 2.83 build, but there now seem to be bigger issues in general with this build:

2020-03-03 11-40-03.mp4

The sim seems to fall apart badly both with and without noise, soon after the start, I've baked and re-baked it several times, and the bigger issue persists.

Interestingly, it looks like #73232 has been fixed (from what I can see) in this (Feb 3rd) build, but with some new issues of it's own.
Both this and the #73232 scene were quite crashy in this build, on playback mostly, although #73232 crashed as soon as I tried to 'free data' on one of the domains (shall report in #73232).

Here's the same file re-baked in 2.82 release for comparison-

2020-03-03 11-47-05.mp4

Hello, this still seems to be an issue with the March 2nd 2.83 build, but there now seem to be bigger issues in general with this build: [2020-03-03 11-40-03.mp4](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8384315/2020-03-03_11-40-03.mp4) The sim seems to fall apart badly both with and without noise, soon after the start, I've baked and re-baked it several times, and the bigger issue persists. Interestingly, it looks like #73232 has been fixed (from what I can see) in this (Feb 3rd) build, but with some new issues of it's own. Both this and the #73232 scene were quite crashy in this build, on playback mostly, although #73232 crashed as soon as I tried to 'free data' on one of the domains (shall report in #73232). Here's the same file re-baked in 2.82 release for comparison- [2020-03-03 11-47-05.mp4](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8384317/2020-03-03_11-47-05.mp4)

Mark Spink commented

2020-06-25 05:57:12 +02:00

Hello all; I tried the above file in 2.83 release version and 2.9 Alpha (version: 2.90.0 Alpha, branch: master, commit date: 2020-06-24 21:51, hash: ec776f18ff).
In 2.83 it behaves the same as my previous test.
In 2.9 Alpha baking the noise makes the smoke completely disappear, as shown below-

Noise_Still_Breaks_PreRoll.mp4

Hello all; I tried the above file in 2.83 release version and 2.9 Alpha (version: 2.90.0 Alpha, branch: master, commit date: 2020-06-24 21:51, hash: `ec776f18ff`). In 2.83 it behaves the same as my previous test. In 2.9 Alpha baking the noise makes the smoke completely disappear, as shown below- [Noise_Still_Breaks_PreRoll.mp4](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8641947/Noise_Still_Breaks_PreRoll.mp4)

blender-admin commented

2020-07-03 15:27:02 +02:00

This issue was referenced by 1e255ce031

This issue was referenced by 1e255ce0319d6cf45b6951a2a87590d2ca236e9f

Jacques Lucke commented

2020-07-03 15:28:22 +02:00

Changed status from 'Confirmed' to: 'Resolved'

Jacques Lucke closed this issue

2020-07-03 15:28:22 +02:00

Jacques Lucke self-assigned this 2020-07-03 15:28:22 +02:00

Dustin Bowser commented

2020-09-12 22:48:42 +02:00