environment pass is occluded by geometry making it unusuable with a shadowcatcher #73497

New Issue

michael campbell · 2020-01-29T19:53:21+01:00

michael campbell commented

2020-01-29 19:53:21 +01:00

System Information
Operating system: Windows-10-10.0.17134-SP0 64 Bits
Graphics card: GeForce GTX 1070/PCIe/SSE2 NVIDIA Corporation 4.5.0 NVIDIA 431.86

Blender Version
Broken: version: 2.83 (sub 1), branch: master, commit date: 2020-01-24 11:49, hash: 11df5443e5
Worked: unsure if ever

Short description of error
environment pass is occluded by geometry making it unusuable with a shadowcatcher

Exact steps for others to reproduce the error

open attached .blend, go to compositing workspace, hit f12, when finished use the split viewer factor to slide between the image and the environment pass.

Perhaps the transparency section needs an additional 'shadow catchers are transparent'.......although that wouldn't make much sense as shadow catchers should always be transparent. Regardless, the environment pass definitely shouldn't contain any geometry information. Is there ever a scenario where you'd want the environment AOV to be jet black where the 3d objects are located?

environment alpha bug.blend

**System Information** Operating system: Windows-10-10.0.17134-SP0 64 Bits Graphics card: GeForce GTX 1070/PCIe/SSE2 NVIDIA Corporation 4.5.0 NVIDIA 431.86 **Blender Version** Broken: version: 2.83 (sub 1), branch: master, commit date: 2020-01-24 11:49, hash: `11df5443e5` Worked: unsure if ever **Short description of error** environment pass is occluded by geometry making it unusuable with a shadowcatcher **Exact steps for others to reproduce the error** open attached .blend, go to compositing workspace, hit f12, when finished use the split viewer factor to slide between the image and the environment pass. Perhaps the transparency section needs an additional 'shadow catchers are transparent'.......although that wouldn't make much sense as shadow catchers should always be transparent. Regardless, the environment pass definitely shouldn't contain any geometry information. Is there ever a scenario where you'd want the environment AOV to be jet black where the 3d objects are located? [environment alpha bug.blend](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8312025/environment_alpha_bug.blend)

michael campbell commented

2020-01-29 19:53:21 +01:00

Added subscriber: @3di

Philipp Oeser commented

2020-01-30 13:00:32 +01:00

Added subscribers: @Sergey, @lichtwerk

Philipp Oeser commented

2020-01-30 13:00:32 +01:00

Changed status from 'Needs Triage' to: 'Needs Developer To Reproduce'

Philipp Oeser commented

2020-01-30 13:00:32 +01:00

Can confirm the behavior
This might very well not be a bug, but a limitation instead.

#55916 (Cycles Shadow Catcher Creating Multiple Shadows) seems related.

However, I would also expect (in an ideal world) to somehow not have the shadow catcher show up in that pass [this one at least, havent checked others...]

Maybe @Sergey Sharybin (sergey) wants to share his wisdom?

Can confirm the behavior This might very well not be a bug, but a limitation instead. #55916 (Cycles Shadow Catcher Creating Multiple Shadows) seems related. However, I would also expect (in an ideal world) to somehow not have the shadow catcher show up in that pass [this one at least, havent checked others...] Maybe @Sergey Sharybin (sergey) wants to share his wisdom?

michael campbell commented

2020-01-30 13:16:32 +01:00

Worth mentioning that it’s not just the shadow catcher that shows up in the pass, it’s all objects.

Philipp Oeser commented

2020-01-30 13:28:51 +01:00

In #73497#862695, @3di wrote:
Worth mentioning that it’s not just the shadow catcher that shows up in the pass, it’s all objects.

Not sure that other objects are an issue? Since the recommended way to combine the passes is to ADD environment (or how are you comping this?):
https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/dev/render/layers/passes.html#combining

> In #73497#862695, @3di wrote: > Worth mentioning that it’s not just the shadow catcher that shows up in the pass, it’s all objects. Not sure that other objects are an issue? Since the recommended way to combine the passes is to `ADD` environment (or how are you comping this?): https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/dev/render/layers/passes.html#combining

michael campbell commented

2020-01-30 13:36:41 +01:00

Check the file I sent and use the viewer to look at the envinroment pass on its own prior to any comping.

Check the file I sent and use the viewer to look at the envinroment pass on its own prior to any comping. ![image.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8313603/image.png)

michael campbell commented

2020-01-30 13:38:45 +01:00

I should point out that the only reason that the glass data isn't included in the environment pass is because I used the transparent glass option in the render settings's film panel.

michael campbell commented

2020-01-30 13:48:24 +01:00

using add isn't a very good solution as it wont work in all circumstances where there's alpha in the foreground, or if you want to move/scale the environment in comp etc.

Philipp Oeser commented

2020-01-30 14:07:41 +01:00

I would stick discussion to the shadow catcher here [since ADD is the recommended way, Eevee will do it the same afaict, if this should really be changed, it would turn this report into a design kind of discussion...]
For me, the shadow catcher [and only that for the moment] is a pretty valid point, leaning towards calling this a bug...

For other objects and the environment pass, I would suggest heading over to https://devtalk.blender.org/ and start a discussion there...

I would stick discussion to the shadow catcher here [since ADD is the recommended way, Eevee will do it the same afaict, if this should really be changed, it would turn this report into a design kind of discussion...] For me, the shadow catcher [and only that for the moment] is a pretty valid point, leaning towards calling this a bug... For other objects and the environment pass, I would *suggest* heading over to https://devtalk.blender.org/ and start a discussion there...

michael campbell commented

2020-01-30 14:16:43 +01:00

But there’s nothing wrong with the shadow catcher, the bug is with ALL objects masking the environment pass. There is no situation where this is needed, and it’s meaning you have to render twice (rendering the environment pass in its own view layer with everything else hidden)

Jeroen Bakker commented

2020-01-30 15:12:45 +01:00

Added subscriber: @Jeroen-Bakker

Jeroen Bakker commented

2020-01-30 15:12:45 +01:00

@3di that is by design as the environment is an additive pass that is applied in the end of the composite. If you want a full environment pass you need to setup a specific view layer for it. See https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/dev/render/layers/passes.html#cycles

Emission from the directly visible background. When the film is set to transparent, this can be used to get the environment color and composite it back in.

@3di that is by design as the environment is an additive pass that is applied in the end of the composite. If you want a full environment pass you need to setup a specific view layer for it. See https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/dev/render/layers/passes.html#cycles ``` Emission from the directly visible background. When the film is set to transparent, this can be used to get the environment color and composite it back in. ``` ![image.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8313739/image.png)

Brecht Van Lommel commented

2020-02-01 01:24:03 +01:00

Added subscriber: @brecht

Brecht Van Lommel commented

2020-02-01 01:24:03 +01:00

Changed status from 'Needs Developer To Reproduce' to: 'Archived'

Brecht Van Lommel closed this issue

2020-02-01 01:24:03 +01:00

Brecht Van Lommel self-assigned this 2020-02-01 01:24:03 +01:00

Brecht Van Lommel commented

2020-02-01 01:24:03 +01:00

This is indeed the design, feedback on that is outside the scope of the bug tracker.

Philipp Oeser commented

2020-02-01 07:30:40 +01:00

In #73497#863173, @brecht wrote:
This is indeed the design, feedback on that is outside the scope of the bug tracker.

@brecht: talked to @Jeroen-Bakker on #blendercoders, and the point about about the shadowcatcher (not other objects) is valid, no?

> In #73497#863173, @brecht wrote: > This is indeed the design, feedback on that is outside the scope of the bug tracker. @brecht: talked to @Jeroen-Bakker on #blendercoders, and the point about about the shadowcatcher (not other objects) is valid, no?

Brecht Van Lommel commented

2020-02-01 09:22:34 +01:00

It's a valid feature request to want an environment pass that you can use for compositing shadow catchers onto, but not a bug in my opinion. That was never the intent behind the original implementation of the environment pass and shadow catcher.

If you want to layer the render to recomposite it, that's what render layers are designed for. The light passes are there to decompose the combined render into separate components, they will not render anything that isn't already in the combined pass.

It's a valid feature request to want an environment pass that you can use for compositing shadow catchers onto, but not a bug in my opinion. That was never the intent behind the original implementation of the environment pass and shadow catcher. If you want to layer the render to recomposite it, that's what render layers are designed for. The light passes are there to decompose the combined render into separate components, they will not render anything that isn't already in the combined pass.

Brecht Van Lommel commented

2020-02-01 10:25:39 +01:00

Changed status from 'Archived' to: 'Confirmed'

Brecht Van Lommel reopened this issue

2020-02-01 10:25:39 +01:00

Brecht Van Lommel removed their assignment 2020-02-01 10:26:18 +01:00

Philipp Oeser commented

2020-02-01 10:33:15 +01:00

OKi, thx checking again

michael campbell commented

2020-02-01 13:27:00 +01:00

Thanks for looking at this guys.

It's worth mentioning that for a more robust compositing workflow (not just recreating a render from it's passes), it's absolutely necessary to be able to produce AOV's which are not masked by scene geometry. Especially for custom AOV's. I'll add it on right click select and hope for the best.

Thanks for looking at this guys. It's worth mentioning that for a more robust compositing workflow (not just recreating a render from it's passes), it's absolutely necessary to be able to produce AOV's which are not masked by scene geometry. Especially for custom AOV's. I'll add it on right click select and hope for the best.

Brecht Van Lommel added this to the Render & Cycles project 2023-02-07 19:08:06 +01:00

Philipp Oeser removed the

Download

What's New

Blender Studio

Manual

Developers Blog

Documentation

Benchmark

Blender Conference

Development Fund

One-time Donations

environment pass is occluded by geometry making it unusuable with a shadowcatcher #73497