Page MenuHome

Tweak tool deselects previously selected items.
Confirmed, NormalPublicDESIGN

Description

System Information
Operating system: Windows
Graphics card: 1060

Blender Version
Broken: All 2.8 versions

Short description of error
Tweak tool deselects previously selected items.

Event Timeline

Richard Antalik (ISS) changed the task status from Needs Triage to Confirmed.Fri, Mar 13, 4:29 PM

In my case LMB+tweak falls back to selected tool. Not sure how this was intended to work.

As for feature request, please use other channels for user feedback and feature requests: https://wiki.blender.org/wiki/Communication/Contact#User_Feedback_and_Requests

The thing is I am allowed to make the selection with the tweak tool, But the tool does not use the selection as it should


Example 3dmax

Richard Antalik (ISS)

Why do you delete a part of my post ?

There is an obvious error.

And instead of making a "stupid fix" but instead doing it right
took my time to show how all other programs are doing it.
from illustrator to 3dMax CG standard
I make a "Request" - for Industry standard, to make Blender more user friendly...

Pinus added a subscriber: Pinus.EditedSat, Mar 14, 1:18 AM

@ Isak:
Select both vertices and press G, and everything works as you like.
Alternatively, you can select the edge and move the two vertices in
exactly the way you want, so everything works fine.

Blender is not 3DMax and also not Illustrator, Blender is different,
Blender is better ; ) : )

@Pinus
So many things in blender is awesome !
I didn't know about that shortcut, "G" and B is it's just a long way for where the hands is resting on the keyboard, so you probably have to look down to find the keys.

I really found it hard to understand why "you" think is so difficult to go from "right to left".
This industry standard is simply just faster and easier to use.
And it will not change anything for old time Blender users, both methods can go hand in hand without any problems

i'm actually just trying to help make Blender a little bit better for everyone :-)

Why do you delete a part of my post ?

It was a feature request and not a bug. On this site we focus on fixing bugs only. Mixing in feature requests and unnecessary information is only distracting.

Richard Antalik (ISS) renamed this task from Modeling tweak tool to LMB+Tweak is misbehaving in Industry compatible keymap.Mon, Mar 16, 12:56 AM
Richard Antalik (ISS) updated the task description. (Show Details)

Pablo Vazquez : BlenderToday #96 T25:43
P.V. Say there is no reason for it shouldn't be working
Reported as a Bug. it should be fixed !

Richard Antalik (ISS) renamed this task from LMB+Tweak is misbehaving in Industry compatible keymap to Tweak tool deselects previously selected items..Fri, Mar 27, 8:27 PM
Richard Antalik (ISS) changed the task status from Confirmed to Needs Triage.
Richard Antalik (ISS) updated the task description. (Show Details)

@Isak Thjellesen (Harvid) yes, I have seen that and I understand now what you meant. This has nothing really to do with industry compatible keymap, and I still think that this is feature request and not a bug.

Richard Antalik.
You are definitely wrong on this one !
All vector or 3D programs use this method, except for Blender, and that's why it is industry standard.
An unnecessary difficulty is a failure of the program, it might not be a code error, but a bug in the UI / the way to using the tool. can actually be much worse

I came here to report the same thing after seeing Harvid bringing it up.
I didn't know this thing had a history here.

I think you can call the current behavior incorrect. And you can call incorrect behavior a BUG.
So this needs a fix.

Adding the box select to the tweak tool IS a feature request, and perhaps shouldn't be handled here but I don't see Harvid asking for it above.

I'm using Blender for 4 years now and I really don't get the mentality of some blenderheads. (am I valid to comment on issues or I can't because I'm not using it since 2.4?)

Look it's cool that we have multiple ways of achieving something. But if we DO have a certain thing implemented but it's incorrect in its behavior then fixing that way of working is clearly not copying another software's solution.
It's just making another way of working WORK like it should be.

And let's not forget the tweak tool is the uppermost and most basic tool on the toolbar. It must work correctly for all the people who try to use it.
Currently it isn't. Please fix it.

As to the question wether this is a bug or not: No this isn't a bug from all I can tell. This behaves just like it was intended originally.
Keep in mind that we have a strict definition of the term bug. The Blender developer team already struggles with keeping this platform in a controlled state due to the huge flood of incoming reports, patches and messages. If we allowed such kind of requests or feedback tickets, we'd simply drown in it.
Please also see https://wiki.blender.org/wiki/Reference/Not_a_bug.

This is an inherent issue for an open source project of the size and user interest of Blender. Of course it would be much nicer if this wasn't the case.


Now to the actual issue:
Unfortunately it's not as easy to resolve this as it may seem. The purpose of the tweak tool is being able to click and move an item in one gesture:

That means we have to immediately deselect other items once the mouse button is pressed. Now, we could change the behavior so that deselecting other items is skipped on a mouse press on an already selected item. However that has further implications (we'd in fact delay the deselection until we know if the intend was to drag the current selection, or to just change selection to the clicked on item).

I've recently gone through the effort of making other editors work like this. It's supported in the node editor, VSE, timeline, dopesheet, graph editor and NLA editor now. So there is a consistency argument to be made here.
It is not trivial to get this working and if we do it, it should be done for other modes and item types as well: Object mode, bones in edit & pose mode, GPencil stroke points, ... So this would probably be several days of work.


And let's not forget the tweak tool is the uppermost and most basic tool on the toolbar. It must work correctly for all the people who try to use it.

That may be true for your workflow, but it's certainly not true for others. Like it's been said by others, Blender has a different approach to many things (just like any other software) and I think the majority of (non-occasional) users doesn't use the tweak tool at all.
That is not an excuse but one should look at things in perspective - people often assume their personal workflow matches the general one.

I would also suggest that you look into the move tool. It should behave much more as you want it, as it works different with selection:

Julian Eisel (Severin) changed the task status from Needs Triage to Confirmed.Sat, Mar 28, 3:51 PM
Julian Eisel (Severin) changed the subtype of this task from "Report" to "Design".

Will leave this open for a bit, but it's a design and management topic, not a bug.
We may still decide that this is worth spending time on (over other tasks). For that I'd especially like to get @William Reynish (billreynish)'s and/or @Campbell Barton (campbellbarton)'s opinion. Otherwise it should be closed.

I think this would be worthwhile to address.
It might be easy. Maybe it could just be solved in the keymap?

It might be easy. Maybe it could just be solved in the keymap?

No, it needs similar changes to the ones we did for the node editor, graph editor, VSE, ... Just this time it would be objects, vertices, bones, GP stroke points, ...

Okay the buck report as a start was not a feature request !

When you're using the Tweak tool you are allowed to make a shift selection but when you try to move them it doesn't work ! it's a buck, or else you should not be allowed to make the selection.

what have maybe make some confusions.
I suggested that just use the industry-standard instead of making a quick fix..

Richard Antalik
Deleted and change what I wrote
I really think it's stupid that I have to spend so much "good karma" on this !
you asked us to report any Buck and when we do, you just say this is how Blender works :-(