Rigify + Whole Character Keying Sets + Library Overrides = Unselectable / Undeletable Keyframes #75781

New Issue

Keith Boshoff · 2020-04-16T12:05:48+02:00

Keith Boshoff commented

2020-04-16 12:05:48 +02:00

If a Rigify character is linked and overridden in another file, then keyed with Whole Character, it creates keys that are unselectable (kind of) and undeleteable (completely).

In the attached zip, open TestLibrary.blend
In the rig, enter Pose Mode
Press 'I' and select Whole Character

The character is now in a strange state, where:

In the dopesheet, grab all the key frames and move them, some keyframes will remain, they will not change their selection state unless Shift-LMBed on, and cannot be deleted.
Select all the keyframes and hit delete. All keyframes appear to be deleted. Goto another frame, grab a single widget and key it (any key will do), and you'll see the previously unmovable key is still there, unmovable and undeletable.

WholeCharacterTest.zip

If a Rigify character is linked and overridden in another file, then keyed with Whole Character, it creates keys that are unselectable (kind of) and undeleteable (completely). - In the attached zip, open TestLibrary.blend - In the rig, enter Pose Mode - Press 'I' and select Whole Character The character is now in a strange state, where: - In the dopesheet, grab all the key frames and move them, some keyframes will remain, they will not change their selection state unless Shift-LMBed on, and cannot be deleted. - Select all the keyframes and hit delete. All keyframes appear to be deleted. Goto another frame, grab a single widget and key it (any key will do), and you'll see the previously unmovable key is still there, unmovable and undeletable. [WholeCharacterTest.zip](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8476705/WholeCharacterTest.zip)

Keith Boshoff commented

2020-04-16 12:05:48 +02:00

Added subscriber: @Wahooney

Ivan Cappiello commented

2020-04-16 12:14:26 +02:00

Added subscriber: @icappiello

Ivan Cappiello commented

2020-04-16 12:14:26 +02:00

Changed status from 'Needs Triage' to: 'Archived'

Ivan Cappiello closed this issue

2020-04-16 12:14:26 +02:00

Ivan Cappiello self-assigned this 2020-04-16 12:14:26 +02:00

Ivan Cappiello commented

2020-04-16 12:14:26 +02:00

Those channels are just hidden. By default blender is not showing in dope sheet and graph editor the hidden channels. You either disable the "only selected" end enable "show hidden" option to move and delete keys accordingly, or just avoid using "Whole Character" keying set.
The "Whole Character" keying set is designed explicitly to key all values, even if hidden.
Moreover this has nothing to do at all with linked libraries.

Those channels are just hidden. By default blender is not showing in dope sheet and graph editor the hidden channels. You either disable the "only selected" end enable "show hidden" option to move and delete keys accordingly, or just avoid using "Whole Character" keying set. The "Whole Character" keying set is designed explicitly to key all values, even if hidden. Moreover this has nothing to do at all with linked libraries.

Keith Boshoff commented

2020-04-16 13:04:32 +02:00

It seems to be related to hidden bones being keyed with the Whole Character, but hidden bones staying hidden in the Dopesheet (but their keyframes show in the rig's keyframe overview).

Ivan Cappiello commented

2020-04-16 13:08:48 +02:00

@Wahooney this has nothing to do with rigify itself. If you have suggestions or complaints about how keys have to be shown, please open a separate report so that blender devs can have a look at it.

cheers,
ivan

@Wahooney this has nothing to do with rigify itself. If you have suggestions or complaints about how keys have to be shown, please open a separate report so that blender devs can have a look at it. cheers, ivan

Keith Boshoff commented

2020-04-16 15:11:27 +02:00

@icappiello I mentioned Rigify because it was the quickest route to get to the problem, not an indication that the problem is caused by Rigify itself, though changes could possibly be made to Rigify to mitigate the issue.

I was only able to delete those keyframes in the linked library scenario with some python script, as the only way to delete those keys through the UI is by unhiding the bones, which cannot be done when it's linked and overridden BTW, even the IK Pole Target toggle doesn't work (definitely something that needs to be sorted out between Rigify and Library Overrides, IMO).

When I try reproducing the error in a non-linked library scenario (TestRig.blend in the attached zip), it manifests differently, the keys are created and their deletion ignored, but they aren't visible in the dope sheet as they are in the linked library override scenario, so something is definitely inconsitant there. Though it is easier to fix in the non-linked scenario, as we can just Reveal All and then see the fcurves which allows for keyframe deletion.

At the end of the day this issue is a UX issue and arguably a paper cut, but it's definitely something that should be addressed. It took me, a fairly knowledgable and technical user, a few hours and some python script to find out where the problem even was let alone fixing it, since those zombie keyframes give no indication of what they are even keying.

@icappiello I mentioned Rigify because it was the quickest route to get to the problem, not an indication that the problem is caused by Rigify itself, though changes could possibly be made to Rigify to mitigate the issue. I was only able to delete those keyframes in the linked library scenario with some python script, as the only way to delete those keys through the UI is by unhiding the bones, which cannot be done when it's linked and overridden BTW, even the IK Pole Target toggle doesn't work (definitely something that needs to be sorted out between Rigify and Library Overrides, IMO). When I try reproducing the error in a non-linked library scenario (TestRig.blend in the attached zip), it manifests differently, the keys are created and their deletion ignored, but they aren't visible in the dope sheet as they are in the linked library override scenario, so something is definitely inconsitant there. Though it is easier to fix in the non-linked scenario, as we can just Reveal All and then see the fcurves which allows for keyframe deletion. At the end of the day this issue **is** a UX issue and arguably a paper cut, but it's definitely something that should be addressed. It took me, a fairly knowledgable and technical user, a few hours and some python script to find out where the problem even was let alone fixing it, since those zombie keyframes give no indication of what they are even keying.

Ivan Cappiello commented

2020-04-16 15:39:08 +02:00

@Wahooney maybe i am missing something, but in your linked file i can delete, move and show all the keys after disabling the "only selected" end enabling "show hidden".
Still this isn't a rigify specific issue and i can't reproduce it on my system.
Moreover some more information are missing in this report and are required to investigate further:

blender version?
OS?

EDIT:
reading once more i see this is happening when you make a library override. This area should probably need a deeper investigation by @mont29, but as i suggested before, it would require a more general report, and a way more simple example for the developer to reproduce.

@Wahooney maybe i am missing something, but in your linked file i can delete, move and show all the keys after disabling the "only selected" end enabling "show hidden". Still this isn't a rigify specific issue and i can't reproduce it on my system. Moreover some more information are missing in this report and are required to investigate further: blender version? OS? EDIT: reading once more i see this is happening when you make a library override. This area should probably need a deeper investigation by @mont29, but as i suggested before, it would require a more general report, and a way more simple example for the developer to reproduce.

Ivan Cappiello commented

2020-04-16 15:43:22 +02:00

Added subscriber: @mont29

Ivan Cappiello commented

2020-04-16 15:50:23 +02:00

@Wahooney can you please check that your dopesheet options are set like this?

@Wahooney can you please check that your dopesheet options are set like this? ![Schermata 2020-04-16 alle 15.49.40.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8476954/Schermata_2020-04-16_alle_15.49.40.png)

Bastien Montagne commented

2020-04-16 17:16:31 +02:00

not sure I understand properly, but editing an overridden animation is not supported at all currently. The only thing that is expected to work for now is creating a new animation (Action data-block) on an overridden data, and editing that one...

Keith Boshoff commented

2020-04-16 18:44:12 +02:00

Ah, that must've been the only combination I didn't try! So that's that sorted, thanks.

So the only problems then would be the display inconsistency of the hidden object f-curves between linked and non-linked sources, that still seems to be a thing, and the Toggle Pole not working in a linked override scenario (most likely a problem with Library Overrides rather than Rigify).

Ah, that must've been the only combination I didn't try! So that's that sorted, thanks. So the only problems then would be the display inconsistency of the hidden object f-curves between linked and non-linked sources, that still seems to be a thing, and the Toggle Pole not working in a linked override scenario (most likely a problem with Library Overrides rather than Rigify).

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Rigify + Whole Character Keying Sets + Library Overrides = Unselectable / Undeletable Keyframes #75781