Closing System Console can lead to loss of work #78185
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Reference: blender/blender#78185
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System Information
Operating system: Windows
Blender Version
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Exact steps for others to reproduce the error
Windows > Toggle System ConsoleAdded subscriber: @KainDeGayls
Added subscriber: @ronsn
Changed status from 'Needs Triage' to: 'Archived'
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Added subscribers: @WilliamReynish, @jesterking
Changed status from 'Archived' to: 'Confirmed'
This isn't spam clearly. But obviously the original post is not a very good-quality bug report either. This doesn't take away there is a valid issue here, though. I'm editing the OP to read nicer and convey the issue correctly.
That said, we should look for a way to make it clear that the system console should not be closed using the - [x] button, but rather just toggled with the menu entry it was first summoned with.
For @KainDeGayls the technical reason is that Blender is linked to the console subsystem, that allows us to show that system console. As a drawback it means closing it closes the whole of Blender.
@WilliamReynish could we find a good way to communicate this to users that aren't aware that the system console on Windows is actually the main heart of the program, and closing it via its - [x] button closes the whole of Blender?
I currently don't know of a way to override the behaviour of that button on the system console so we could prevent this, but we should keep looking.
I lost several hours of work...to Closing System Console can lead to loss of workAdded subscriber: @LazyDodo
The report doesn't mention OS or version but on windows we have disabled the close button in
27a239864fRight, there is a second close button though, which is probably which is used.
Using the X on the console window through the taskbar closes whole of Blender. @LazyDodo, are you aware of any API that could help us hook into that one?
No
Added subscriber: @Alaska
Another note for @KainDeGayls
Blender by default will make auto saves every few minutes of your scene to the
tmpfolder on your computer. If you close Blender without saving, you can revert back to a auto save by opening Blender and selecting from the top of BlenderFile -> Recover -> Auto saveand selecting the auto save of your file.By default, I believe Windows will clear the
tmpfolder if you turn off your computer. So make sure you recover your autosave before turning off your computer.Removed subscriber: @Alaska
Added subscriber: @ankitm
Why not use the toggle again ? If the button's name was "open system console", that'd be a different thing and leave an ambiguity. But there's not ambiguity here & totally a user's mistake.
window's console should be asking the user for a confirmation about "terminate process? "
Added subscriber: @rjg
But there is ambiguity. After opening the system console there is no indication in the taskbar that closing the console window closes all Windows.
On Windows:
Now click on the Blender entry in the task bar, you'll get three previews: the main window, the new window and the console window. Click in the preview the X of the new window. It will close nicely as expected, rest of Blender is still up and running. Do the same with the console window. Blender closes without a peep.
This is far from unambiguous, and no doubt will lead to more of these cases in the future.
Removed subscriber: @LazyDodo
Added subscriber: @Mets
I remember seeing suggestions over the years for having a terminal inside Blender itself. Is such a thing possible?
Added subscriber: @HooglyBoogly
I don't think this is a bug within the current definition. Of course that doesn't mean we don't want to reduce the reliance on the system console, but I don't think it makes sense to keep that on the bug tracker.
That said, I'll keep this as a "Known Issue" since it might not be intuitive at all.
Added subscriber: @ShadowChaser
Realize this is a task marked as confirmed, but I wanted to chime in with a few observations that might come in handy in case someone stumbles across this again. Blender's behavior on Windows has a few "quirks" compared to other applications that result in user experience problems, a perception of lower quality compared to other software (definitely not true!), or strange edge cases that might be considered bugs.
I understand many of these seem minor or "not defects" to non-Windows Blender developers or extremely advanced users, but they are definitely bugs for the average Blender user and especially when comparing to other 3D software packages.
I've experimented with a few solutions with some mixed success:
Windowed Launcher Process
A "launcher" process (e.g. blenderlauncher.exe) can be created. The process would be a Windowed app instead of a Console app, avoiding a console flash. It could then call CreateProcess on Blender.exe with the CREATE_NO_WINDOW flag and then immediately terminate. This would have the end result of launching Blender without a console window by default - all other stdin/stdout/etc streams and console features are left alone. The "launcher" could be made the target of the Windows Store packages or, much later, the Start Menu shortcut for non-Store installs.
The problem with this approach is that I cannot find an API to create the console window on demand once blender.exe has started (e.g. during Toggle System Console). Unless someone else can find an API that does that, Blender would need an integrated console for this approach to be successful.
Blocking Console Process
A "command line" process (e.g. blenderc.exe) can be created and the main blender.exe process made a fully windowed application (instead of a command line one). This command line process would call CreateProcess on blender.exe to launch the UI with options to have blender.exe's stdin and stdout redirected to the parent console process. The command line process would then call WaitForSingleObject to ensure control isn't returned back to the terminal until Blender is closed or finishes it's processing.
This approach is the most "pure" - Blender is a windowed application and is properly configured as such, the command line executable still works the same as it does today for power users/automation scenarios/etc. Java works this way (java.exe and javaw.exe) as do many other Windows' applications.
There are two downsides - one is that Blender would still need an integrated console for "pure window" scenarios and the other is that power users would need to learn to run a slightly different executable if they want the command line to block and redirect stdin/stdout/stderr.
Pseudoterminal
Newer versions of Windows 10 support full pseudoterminal (PTY) functionality. One option here would be to have Blender launch whatever terminal it likes (not just Windows' ancient default one) and also have full control of it. That won't work on Windows 7/8, so this isn't a reasonable option.
Proposal: A Path Forward
There are quite a few benefits to this approach:
Most of the work here is trivial with the exception of the integrated console UI, and I suspect much of that is already built because of the Python Console.
Thoughts? Let's keep an open mind :)
A little taste of what's possible:
no-console.mp4
Added subscriber: @brecht
@ShadowChaser capturing stdout/stderr and showing in the info editor (could be renamed if its purpose is expanded) is what developers generally agree on is the path forward. Contributions go get this working are definitely welcome.
Once that is implemented, I think we should simply eliminate the console window. Power users who want console output can simply launch Blender from the console., I don't see the need for anything more.
@brecht I fully agree with your idea. Power users would start from the console and don't need the option. Additionally, the idea to capture stdout/stderr would make the messages accessible to users on all platforms when starting Blender without a terminal/console.
Added subscriber: @Harley
Me and LazyDodo have talked about this, but I've been pushing it off, waiting for the GSoC Info Editor Improvements as that would include changes that would make it nicer.