Formalize Default Selection Behavior and Key-map #78253

New Issue

Julian Eisel · 2020-06-25T13:17:01+02:00

Julian Eisel commented

2020-06-25 13:17:01 +02:00

Selection should behave as consistent as possible throughout Blender. There should be a formal description for that to help avoiding inconsistencies.

NOTE: This task is WIP, all content is tentative.

We may have to draw distinctions between right-click vs. left-click and 2D vs. 3D editors. For the latter, there are rather different requirements.

2D Editors

Key-map item	Action
{key Click}	Select item (and activate) an item. Deselect others.
{key Shift Click}	Toggle selection (and activate):
	* Select (and activate) if item was not selected
	* (Activate it item was selected)
	* Deselect item (if already active, or) if selected.
...	...

[TODO make table per-tool?]

Selection should behave as consistent as possible throughout Blender. There should be a formal description for that to help avoiding inconsistencies. NOTE: This task is WIP, all content is tentative. We *may* have to draw distinctions between right-click vs. left-click and 2D vs. 3D editors. For the latter, there are rather different requirements. ### 2D Editors | Key-map item | Action | ---------------- | -------- | {key Click} | Select item (and activate) an item. Deselect others. | {key Shift Click} | Toggle selection (and activate): | | * Select (and activate) if item was *not* selected | | * (Activate it item was selected) | | * Deselect item (if already active, or) if selected. | ... | ... [TODO make table per-tool?]

Julian Eisel commented

2020-06-25 13:17:01 +02:00

Changed status from 'Needs Triage' to: 'Confirmed'

Julian Eisel commented

2020-06-25 13:17:01 +02:00

Added subscriber: @JulianEisel

Duarte Farrajota Ramos commented

2020-06-25 14:30:07 +02:00

Added subscriber: @DuarteRamos

Duarte Farrajota Ramos commented

2020-06-25 15:45:10 +02:00

Glad to see this issue come up.
Unlike many users I have always liked Blender's key map consistency across the board, despite some exceptions. One of the few things that always bothered however me was how selection was neither internally consistent, nor matched other more broad guidelines.
What I'd like to see as outcome from this task is end up with a consistent use of modifier keys throughout selection modes.

At the moment modifier keys don't trigger the same selection behavior across the different selection modes, click-select, box-select, paint-select and lasso.
For example in the left-click keymap, the click-select and box-select Shift key is set for adding to or extending selection, but it deselects in paint-select and lasso.
The Ctrl modifier replaces selection without extension for click-select, but is set for remove for box-select. It does nothing under paint select, and to remove from selection in paint mode you have to use middle-click, which may be hard to discover.

What I had proposed before is to use these modifier keys consistently across all modes, so they are easier to work with and one as to memorize less possible combinations.
We already have in place a very good convention for modifier keys, where Shift augments or extends an operator, and Alt key reverses or negates it (H for hid/unhide, P for parent/unparent, etc ), I was hoping we could extend this behavior to selection as well.

Modifier Key	Mode	Object	Behavior	Description
~~None~~	Click-Select	Object Mode	Select Replace	Don't extend current selection
`Shift`	Click-Select	Object Mode	Extend Select	Add to current selection
`Ctrl`	Click-Select	Object Mode	Toggle Select	Toggle items in or out of selection
`Alt`	Click-Select	Object Mode	Deselect	Only deselect don't replace current selection
`Ctrl` + `Shift`	Click-Select	Object Mode	Enum Extend	Extend selection with enum popup menu for overlapping objects
`Ctrl` + `Alt`	Click-Select	Object Mode	Enum Deselect	Deselect with enum popup menu for overlapping objects
`Shift`+ `Alt`	Click-Select	Object Mode	Enum Replace	Select without extending with enum popup menu for overlapping objects
`Shift` + `Ctrl` + `Alt`	Click-Select	Object Mode	? Select Hierarchy	? Select objects with children

~~None~~	Box, Lasso, Paint	Object/Edit Mode	Select Replace	Don't extend current selection
`Shift`	Box, Lasso, Paint	Object/Edit Mode	Extend Select	Add to current selection
`Ctrl`	Box, Lasso, Paint	Object/Edit Mode	Toggle Select	Toggle items in or out of selection
`Alt`	Box, Lasso, Paint	Object/Edit Mode	Deselect	Only deselect don't replace current selection
`Ctrl` + `Shift`	Box, Lasso, Paint	Object/Edit Mode	?	?
`Ctrl` + `Alt`	Box, Lasso, Paint	Object/Edit Mode	?	?
`Shift`+ `Alt`	Box, Lasso, Paint	Object/Edit Mode	?	?
`Shift` + `Ctrl` + `Alt`	Box, Lasso, Paint	Object/Edit Mode	?	?

~~None~~	Click-Select	Mesh Edit Mode	Select Replace	Don't extend current selection
`Shift`	Click-Select	Mesh Edit Mode	Extend Select	Add to current selection
`Ctrl`	Click-Select	Mesh Edit Mode	Toggle Select	Toggle items in or out of selection
`Alt`	Click-Select	Mesh Edit Mode	Deselect	Only deselect don't replace current selection
`Ctrl` + `Shift`	Click-Select	Mesh Edit Mode	Loop Select	Extend selection to edge loop (toggle)
`Ctrl` + `Alt`	Click-Select	Mesh Edit Mode	Ring Select	Extend selection to edge ring (toggle)
`Shift`+ `Alt`	Click-Select	Mesh Edit Mode	Shortest Path	Select shortest path
`Shift` + `Ctrl` + `Alt`	Click-Select	Mesh Edit Mode	Shortest Path Fill	Select shortest path fill mode

Whichever specific keys end up assigned to each mode I leave to you, I generally like to customize my keymap to my taste anyway so it is not so relevant, what I'd like to see is a consistent use across all modes.

Glad to see this issue come up. Unlike many users I have always liked Blender's key map consistency across the board, despite some exceptions. One of the few things that always bothered however me was how selection was neither internally consistent, nor matched other more broad guidelines. What I'd like to see as outcome from this task is end up with a consistent use of modifier keys throughout selection modes. At the moment modifier keys don't trigger the same selection behavior across the different selection modes, click-select, box-select, paint-select and lasso. For example in the left-click keymap, the click-select and box-select `Shift` key is set for adding to or extending selection, but it deselects in paint-select and lasso. The `Ctrl` modifier replaces selection without extension for click-select, but is set for remove for box-select. It does nothing under paint select, and to remove from selection in paint mode you have to use middle-click, which may be hard to discover. What I had proposed before is to use these modifier keys consistently across all modes, so they are easier to work with and one as to memorize less possible combinations. We already have in place a very good convention for modifier keys, where `Shift` augments or extends an operator, and `Alt` key reverses or negates it (`H` for hid/unhide, `P` for parent/unparent, etc ), I was hoping we could extend this behavior to selection as well. | Modifier Key | Mode | Object | Behavior | Description | -------------- | ------ | --------| ----------|------------- | ~~None~~ | Click-Select | Object Mode | Select Replace | Don't extend current selection | `Shift` | Click-Select | Object Mode | Extend Select | Add to current selection | `Ctrl` | Click-Select| Object Mode | Toggle Select | Toggle items in or out of selection | `Alt` | Click-Select| Object Mode | Deselect | Only deselect don't replace current selection | `Ctrl` + `Shift` | Click-Select | Object Mode | Enum Extend | Extend selection with enum popup menu for overlapping objects | `Ctrl` + `Alt` | Click-Select | Object Mode | Enum Deselect | Deselect with enum popup menu for overlapping objects | `Shift`+ `Alt` | Click-Select | Object Mode | Enum Replace | Select without extending with enum popup menu for overlapping objects | `Shift` + `Ctrl` + `Alt` | Click-Select | Object Mode | ? Select Hierarchy | ? Select objects with children | ~~None~~ | Box, Lasso, Paint | Object/Edit Mode | Select Replace | Don't extend current selection | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | | `Shift` | Box, Lasso, Paint | Object/Edit Mode | Extend Select | Add to current selection | `Ctrl` | Box, Lasso, Paint | Object/Edit Mode | Toggle Select | Toggle items in or out of selection | `Alt` | Box, Lasso, Paint | Object/Edit Mode | Deselect | Only deselect don't replace current selection | `Ctrl` + `Shift` | Box, Lasso, Paint | Object/Edit Mode | ? | ? | `Ctrl` + `Alt` | Box, Lasso, Paint | Object/Edit Mode | ? | ? | `Shift`+ `Alt` | Box, Lasso, Paint | Object/Edit Mode | ? | ? | `Shift` + `Ctrl` + `Alt` | Box, Lasso, Paint | Object/Edit Mode | ? | ? | ~~None~~ | Click-Select | Mesh Edit Mode | Select Replace | Don't extend current selection | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | | `Shift` | Click-Select | Mesh Edit Mode | Extend Select | Add to current selection | `Ctrl` | Click-Select| Mesh Edit Mode | Toggle Select | Toggle items in or out of selection | `Alt` | Click-Select| Mesh Edit Mode | Deselect | Only deselect don't replace current selection | `Ctrl` + `Shift` | Click-Select | Mesh Edit Mode | Loop Select | Extend selection to edge loop (toggle) | `Ctrl` + `Alt` | Click-Select | Mesh Edit Mode | Ring Select | Extend selection to edge ring (toggle) | `Shift`+ `Alt` | Click-Select | Mesh Edit Mode | Shortest Path | Select shortest path | | `Shift` + `Ctrl` + `Alt` | Click-Select | Mesh Edit Mode | Shortest Path Fill | Select shortest path fill mode | Whichever specific keys end up assigned to each mode I leave to you, I generally like to customize my keymap to my taste anyway so it is not so relevant, what I'd like to see is a **consistent use across all modes**.

xan2622 commented

2021-01-04 20:18:20 +01:00

Added subscriber: @xan2622

xan2622 commented

2021-01-04 21:13:25 +01:00

I hope this is not off-topic but here is a suggestion for a new hotkey:

Since ALT is usually the opposite of a hotkey, I wish Alt+i could directly create an outset (instead of an inset).
(add-on: https://blenderartists.org/t/offset-edges)

I hope this is not off-topic but here is a suggestion for a new hotkey: Since ALT is usually the opposite of a hotkey, I wish **Alt+i** could directly create an **outset** (instead of an inset). (add-on: https://blenderartists.org/t/offset-edges)

Paul Kotelevets commented

2021-01-05 05:54:30 +01:00

Added subscriber: @1D_Inc

Paul Kotelevets commented

2021-01-05 05:54:30 +01:00

Selection should behave as consistent as possible throughout Blender.

Actually, no. Usability in workflow design is defined as "perfect balance between consistency and relevancy solutions", where consistency solutions are easier to learn and relevancy solutions allow to perfom actions faster during hard work in further.
Blender is one of the fastest software because discovered this way, it shown that it is impossible to create competitive fast solution following only consistency way.

> Selection should behave as consistent as possible throughout Blender. Actually, no. Usability in workflow design is defined as "perfect balance between consistency and relevancy solutions", where consistency solutions are easier to learn and relevancy solutions allow to perfom actions faster during hard work in further. Blender is one of the fastest software because discovered this way, it shown that it is impossible to create competitive fast solution following only consistency way.

Paul Kotelevets commented

2021-01-05 05:57:59 +01:00

Alt for deselect instead of selecting loop.

What is the point? To put the most complex shortcuts to the most relevant actions to perform they as slow as possible, following 3dsmax way, vanishing all the advantages over it?
Edit mode and object mode are two different worlds with completely different requirements to selection and operations, they cannot be equalized by definition)

> Alt for deselect instead of selecting loop. What is the point? To put the most complex shortcuts to the most relevant actions to perform they as slow as possible, following 3dsmax way, vanishing all the advantages over it? Edit mode and object mode are two different worlds with completely different requirements to selection and operations, they cannot be equalized by definition)

Philipp Oeser removed the

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Formalize Default Selection Behavior and Key-map #78253

2D Editors