VSE 2.0: The Big Picture #78986
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Status: Final designs and planning is being made. relevant tasks are being created
Team
Commissioner: @fsiddi
Project leader: @Sergey
Project members: @fsiddi, @Sergey, @iss
Description
Big picture:
The goal is to make VSE usable for typical tasks done here at the Blender Animation Studio, making it so artists are happy using VSE tools.
Use cases:
Design:
Overall design is simple: VSE should just work :)
More concrete designs are written up in the specific milestones, as they are covering different aspects, some of them are purely technical, some of them are mainly UI/UX.
Work plan
Milestone 1 - Playback performance and reliability (for videos and images)
Relevant task: #78992
Time estimate:
TBDMilestone 2 - Tools and UX
Time estimate:
TBDMilestone 3 - Media Management
Time estimate:
TBDMilestone 4 - I/O Workflow
Time estimate:
TBDDemo file from the actual production video created here at the Blender studio.
Small file to test playback on simple setup and encoding performance.
Added subscribers: @iss, @Sergey, @fsiddi, @dfelinto
Changed status from 'Needs Triage' to: 'Confirmed'
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Something is killing everybody is the output speed, rendering a .mp4 format is so so slow, slower than Windows movie maker :(
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As other contributors and myself, have put a lot of work into writing docs and add-ons for improving the VSE over the years, I hope you guys will find this collection of links relevant as inspiration for your project.
GENERAL SUGGESTIONS FOR THE VSE:
VSE ideas for the Gsoc:
https://devtalk.blender.org/t/gsoc-ideas-for-the-video-sequence-editor/11415
(Integration, toolset, workflow, I/O, Proxy and Ffmpeg, Plugins, Color handling)
General Ideas for the VSE:
https://devtalk.blender.org/t/video-sequence-editor-a-list-of-ideas/10343
Quick Tasks for the VSE:
https://devtalk.blender.org/t/quick-tasks-for-the-video-sequence-editor-a-list-of-suggestions/10341
DESIGN SUGGESTIONS:
Toolbar:
https://devtalk.blender.org/t/design-proposal-vse-toolbar/11650
(Sequencer: Select, Trim, Ripple, Roll, Slip, Slide, Cut, Blade, Insert, Overwrite, Swap, Snap, Parenting, Preview during operation, Audio Toolset, Channel Headers, Highlight Operator by Position, In/Out Markers, Preview update during Trim)
(Sequencer Preview: Select, Move, Scale, Rotate, Crop, Add Text, Grade, Color Picker, Annotations)
Render speed:
https://devtalk.blender.org/t/video-sequencer-rendering-speed/14012
Multi Cam strips(redesign):
https://devtalk.blender.org/t/design-proposal-multicam-strips/12672
Proxy-handling(redesign):
https://devtalk.blender.org/t/design-proposal-proxy-use-in-the-video-sequence-editor/12065
Text Strips(redesign):
https://devtalk.blender.org/t/design-proposal-text-strips/12503
Effect Strips vs. Strip Settings:
https://devtalk.blender.org/t/design-proposal-effect-strips-vs-strip-settings/11987
TOP RANKING VSE ADD-ONS WHICH DEALS WITH VSE SHORTCOMINGS:
VSEQF:
https://github.com/snuq/VSEQF
(Strip Parenting, Timeline Ripple, Strip Cutting, Fades and Audio Adjustments, Strip Markers, Strip Tags, Context Menus(for real), Zoom Menus, Playback speed control(like J,K,L)).
Transform Tools:
https://github.com/doakey3/VSE_Transform_Tools
(Move, Rotate, Scale, Crop, Track Tranform, Mouse Teack etc. in Toolbar and in VSE Preview)
Parallel Render:
https://github.com/elmopl/ktba/wiki/Addons
(Speed up rendering by rendering with an instance of Blender for each core and then concatenate. There are several of add-ons which does this, but this one is integrated in the Blender UI)
Easy Proxy:
https://github.com/cgvirus/blender-vse-easy-proxy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-EVhOYGyBY
(Fast rendering an one format proxies)
Preview VSE edits in 3D View:
https://github.com/tin2tin/scene_strip_tools
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG52ytTa_JU
Blender Project Manager:
https://github.com/samytichadou/blender_project_manager
(Workaround scene switching for previz/storyboarding)
Roundtrip Strip in Compositor:
https://github.com/wilecoyote2015/Blender_Addons/tree/master/CompositeVSE
TOP RANKING RIGHT CLICK SELECT SUGGESTIONS:
Make Blender a realtime storytelling tool(by moving sequences out of scenes):
https://blender.community/c/rightclickselect/kWbbbc/
Nodes editing in the VSE(Integration):
https://blender.community/c/rightclickselect/jcbbbc/
Give encoding and decoding of video an overhaul to gain speedups :
https://blender.community/c/rightclickselect/0Mfbbc/
Integrate Open Timeline IO for edit list management:
https://blender.community/c/rightclickselect/Tccbbc/
Blender Support for ACES:
https://blender.community/c/rightclickselect/yLfbbc/
Roundtrip strip in Node Editor:
https://blender.community/c/rightclickselect/Jhfbbc/
Add multi-threaded processing for all effect strips:
https://blender.community/c/rightclickselect/QLfbbc/
VSE aspect correction:
https://blender.community/c/rightclickselect/GXbbbc/
Hi Peter, thank you for the links. The limitations of the VSE, as well as the workarounds and the "most wanted" features, are well known to the development team. The goal of this task is to establish a minimal set of deliverables that will improve the VSE in its current state. Let's keep the task focused on that and use other channels (chat or devtalk) to discuss further ideas if needed.
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I note that the design doc refers to
Further I note
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I absolutely love that your plan of attack includes a list of the top ranking addons for VSE and top ranking suggestions on right click select. I think any plan to overhaul any area of Blender should include a similar list, because it's really insightful to gain a sense of what specifically is most important to users.
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Can thumbnail previews in the strip be added to this list? VSE is the only editor I've ever seen that doesn't do this by default.
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To me what lacks most in VSE are the effects we can find in any other video editor.
This is why the ability to apply nodes directly on strips would be a huge step forward. Moreover it would simplify the general workflow.
Regarding the Parallel Rendering improvement, I already use the python script developped by Mickeycal Meyers.
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VSE 2.0: Make VSE great again, the big pictureto VSE 2.0: The Big PictureThis comment was removed by @tintwotin
Thanks for the feedback on the project title, fixed it. Let's keep the thread focused.
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Really good to see the vse getting some love. I use vse for all my editing. it is actually a powerful editing suite already, but this work will help no end.
Can I just say..... chroma key? Please?
You can do something like this: https://blender.stackexchange.com/questions/78947/how-can-i-do-color-keying-using-the-vse
I have long list of features to implement, but I have prioritized work on improving existing code so far.
In any case, even though this task is quite broad, please use other channels for feature requests: https://wiki.blender.org/wiki/Communication/Contact#User_Feedback_and_Requests.
For discussions not directly related to this task you can visit https://blender.chat/channel/vse.
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is OpenFX (OFX) support planned for VSE 2.0?
It's open source license. This would mean that many Plugins could be used, it's a world of opportunities.
I use the current VSE. But with no support of OpenFX, this is the reason why I have to switch to an external software, ( like Dacinci Resolve) to apply them.
This is not planned for "VSE 2.0" project. Goals are listed on this page.
External plugins aren't used in Blender. Closest to this there is OSL shader node and addons that could bridge Blender with another app.
VSE doesn't have such API right now, and I am not looking in implementing such API in near future.
I would like to extend flexibility of processing though in some way, but don't haven't thought of anything concrete or discussed this yet.
Feel free to discuss this on https://blender.chat/channel/vse if you need more info.
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why the blender vse dont support 3gp files when the vfx work space does?
the speed control effect should change the length automatically . why it don't work like that ?
and even when you change the length manually you wont be able to cut it any more because it will show you the first frame of the footage rather than where you cut it
Please create bugreport for this.
Also keep in mind that this is not place to request features, see https://wiki.blender.org/wiki/Communication/Contact#User_Feedback_and_Requests.
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Hi, does "Improved retiming tools" mean that we could have some real slowmotion effect or frame decimation in the clips?
Not exactly sure what do you mean by that - there is frame interpolation, which you can argue is rather artistic tool, but if you mean smooth interpolation by analyzing motion vectors or perhaps something AI assisted, I don't think so, but this point haven't been discussed in great detail yet.
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Hello! My name is Konstantin Dmitriev, I am head of Morevna Project animation studio, where we produce short open-movies using FLOSS software. We use Blender's VSE for years for our projects and (unfortunately) the change of behavior of "default media fitting" (which was introduced since Blender 2.9x) is breaks our workflow.
Please let me explain the problem in detail.
At the first stage of our production we build a draft of the project and render scenes at low resolution (i.e. 480x270 or 960x540). We compose those scenes together in the video sequence editor. Then, when the project is ready, we re-render the shots at final resolution - 1920x1080 (we use automation scripts for re-rendering).
In Blender 2.79, 2.8x, we had no problems with this approach - the videos were automatically upscaled to fit the project resolution.
But starting from version 2.9, the behavior of Blender has changed: now, when we insert low-res shots, we have to manually enter transformation parameters to scale each scene to the project resolution. And when we re-render in high resolution, we have to tweak the scale to its original state again.
So, is it possible to have an option to revert for behavior of Blender 2.8x and earlier?
This could be an "Auto Scale" checkbox as a parameter for video/image strips. This option would tell Blender to automatically fit (scale) inserted videos to the resolution specified in the project.
I 100% agree, this is incredibly counter-intuitive and workflow hostile behavior that has bitten me numerous times already as well!
Additionally, it is counter to the way the rest of blender behaves - changing the output resolution doesnt change the relative zoom level of 3d scene cameras of course, because that would be stupid... so why does it essentially do that with the vse?
I dont think we need an 'Auto scale' checkbox (this would imply automatic updates based on scene scale changes), but rather a 'Relative scale' checkbox that toggles between the current mode (NOT set as default) and scene resolution-independent scaling behavior.
There is ONE bright spot that might help your workflow tho - the render resolution % value does not screw with strip scaling, so if you set the output resolution to your final maximum, you can render out low res previews by setting that value. I have used this to render out a 4k sourced project in 1080p before as well, but of course this only works if the numbers are easily divisible or you dont care that much about resolution precision.
Agree. :)
It was design decision, that image with scale of 1 is rendered at it's native resolution. This has some benefits, but also downsides.
Do you mean something like this when adding strips?
Even when strips are added, you can use scale to fit operator (Image > Apply menu). If you overwrite source files, you have to load them again though (scrub through timeline).
If you meant, that strips would be resized and their absolute position would change when resolution is changed, this could be done, unless you change aspect ratio. But you can't change resolution without changing aspect ratio currently. Therefore this would have to be implemented by addon (especially if you overwrite source files, to ensure each strip has up to date metadata loaded)
If this does not help, I would encourage you to create bug report with steps to reproduce your issue in order to not discuss this in development task.
I had a concern about this behavior in the design discussion, which, unfortunately, was left unanswered :(
This is about changing resolution of the underlying movie files outside of Blender. For example, when you work on comp/sequencer using 1k images during early days of production, and only later on crank the resolution of the media to 4k when you know the image quality is good. This saves a lot of render time during production.
I don't think the fit operator or auto-fit option really works good. You can imagine that there could be some transform applied to the strip, which you wouldn't like to change when switching to a higher resolution footage.
I think here at the studio we do something similar, but we rely on the Replace Media operator. I am not aware if we only do it for the switch of jpeg/exr or if it also handles resolution change. Worth ensuring that re replace media operator does not change the final look of the frame when its only the media resolution change. Unless that is ensured it will not be pleasant/reliable to implement solution on the studio side.
This is exactly our case.
We use RenderChan tool (https://morevnaproject.org/renderchan/) which automatically manages renders.
It is capable to render whole animation project at given resolution.
So, we render at low resolution first and inset the scenes to Blender's VSE.
After editing is done we run RenderChan again with request to render at higher resolution. Thus, the video files are replaced.
Yes, the fit operator and auto-fit option are not a solution for our case.
We provide sources of all our animation projects. Here is one example, which is affected by this issue - https://gitlab.com/OpenSourceAnimation/pepper-and-carrot-ep04
No, this doesn't works for us.
The option you referenced in the screenshot fits the video during import.
But after that we replace video with higher-resolution version. And as result it is shown larger in the video editing.
This doesn't works for us for the reasons outlined by @Sergey above.
We have fully-automated solution, which renders our animations at different resolutions and we get resulting file without any human actions.
I.e. we usually write command "renderchan --profile hd /path/to/project/editing-vse.blend" - and it re-renders all shots at 1280x720 and outputs edited content from Blender's VSE file (at 1280x720 resolution too).
After that we can do "renderchan --profile full-hd /path/to/project/editing-vse.blend" (notice "full-hd" profile name) and it re-renders all shots at 1920x1080 and outputs edited content from Blender's VSE file (at 1920x1080 resolution too).
We do not change aspect ratio.
Please check this part of code to see how RenderChan internally changes resolution before rendering Blender file:
https://github.com/morevnaproject-org/RenderChan/blob/master/renderchan/contrib/blender.py#L39
So, I assume if we specify 1920x1080 instead of 1280x720 - the aspect ratio isn't changes.
Sure, I can submit a separate bug report, if you find that appropriate.
We are publishing full sources of our animation projects, so it is not a problem to provide sample project to illustrate the issue - https://gitlab.com/OpenSourceAnimation/pepper-and-carrot-ep04
Considering all details above, please let me know - should I make a separate bug report? :)
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