Objects in front of the selection stay in front in wireframe mode #79204

New Issue

Vanessa Dannenberg · 2020-07-23T21:40:40+02:00

2020-07-23 21:40:40 +02:00

Blender Version
Broken: version 2.80+
Worked: version 2.79

Short description of error
In blender 2.79, the wireframe of objects selected or in edit-mode was drawn in front of the wireframe of all other objects in the scene.
In blender 2.80 onwards, this doesn't happen anymore.

Here's a model shown in 2.79b, with my usual theme:

The object in edit mode is behind the objects seen with gray wireframe. But because it is in edit mode, it is drawn in front of the others.
The same is true if the object is in object-mode but selected.

Now compare the same model in 2.8x:

Here the same object is seem in edit-mode. Now it is drawn behind everything else, which creates a noisy, low-contrast appearance, making it hard to see and sometimes hard to edit.
Sometimes it forces me to rotate the view to get other things out of the way (especially if the foreground objects have a lot of detail/geometry).

If you zoom in real close on an area where a foreground object overlaps the selection, snap a screenshot, and then scale or zoom the image, you can see how the foreground object is definitely being drawn in front of the active one:

Bottom line: In my opinion, in a normal view mode like Solid or Lookdev/Material, the selection of course should remain behind everything else (unless changed via its Object properties), but in Wireframe view mode the selected object should appear in front of other stuff.
Perhaps an option is needed the Preferences to force the old 2.79b draw order.

Exact steps for others to reproduce the error

Open attached file
Change the wire theme to something gray (or use the attached theme).
wireframe_in_2_79.blend
classic-look.xml

The original model is probably too big to upload here: https://gitlab.com/VanessaE/my-hypercube-files-big-version-320x320/-/blob/master/mockups-models/Hypercube%20printer%20model%20(320x320%20bed,%20540x510x540%20frame).blend

**Blender Version** Broken: version 2.80+ Worked: version 2.79 **Short description of error** In blender 2.79, the wireframe of objects selected or in edit-mode was drawn in front of the wireframe of all other objects in the scene. In blender 2.80 onwards, this doesn't happen anymore. Here's a model shown in 2.79b, with my usual theme: ![Screenshot_2020-07-23_14-35-47.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8716690/Screenshot_2020-07-23_14-35-47.png) The object in edit mode is behind the objects seen with gray wireframe. But because it is in edit mode, it is drawn in front of the others. The same is true if the object is in object-mode but selected. Now compare the same model in 2.8x: ![Screenshot_2020-07-23_14-54-19.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8716703/Screenshot_2020-07-23_14-54-19.png) Here the same object is seem in edit-mode. Now it is drawn behind everything else, which creates a noisy, low-contrast appearance, making it hard to see and sometimes hard to edit. Sometimes it forces me to rotate the view to get other things out of the way (especially if the foreground objects have a lot of detail/geometry). If you zoom in real close on an area where a foreground object overlaps the selection, snap a screenshot, and then scale or zoom the image, you can see how the foreground object is definitely being drawn in front of the active one: ![Screenshot_2020-07-23_15-26-10.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8716738/Screenshot_2020-07-23_15-26-10.png) Bottom line: In my opinion, in a normal view mode like Solid or Lookdev/Material, the selection of course should remain behind everything else (unless changed via its Object properties), but in Wireframe view mode the selected object should appear in front of other stuff. Perhaps an option is needed the Preferences to force the old 2.79b draw order. **Exact steps for others to reproduce the error** - Open attached file - Change the wire theme to something gray (or use the attached theme). [wireframe_in_2_79.blend](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F9654670/wireframe_in_2_79.blend) [classic-look.xml](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F9654628/classic-look.xml) The original model is probably too big to upload here: https://gitlab.com/VanessaE/my-hypercube-files-big-version-320x320/-/blob/master/mockups-models/Hypercube%20printer%20model%20(320x320%20bed,%20540x510x540%20frame).blend

Vanessa Dannenberg commented

2020-07-23 21:40:40 +02:00

Added subscriber: @VanessaE

Vanessa Dannenberg changed title from ~~Objects behind the selection appear in front in wireframe mode~~ to Objects in front of the selection stay in front in wireframe mode

2020-08-03 12:06:38 +02:00

Germano Cavalcante commented

2021-02-05 16:42:48 +01:00

Added subscriber: @mano-wii

Germano Cavalcante commented

2021-02-05 16:42:48 +01:00

Thanks for the report,
Can you provide a file (preferably simple) and the theme used so that we can see the problem?
The link provided does not work :\

For future reports, it is good to follow this guide: https://wiki.blender.org/wiki/Process/Bug_Reports
Removing tags like #bf_blender can make the report go unnoticed.

Thanks for the report, Can you provide a file (preferably simple) and the theme used so that we can see the problem? The link provided does not work :\ --- For future reports, it is good to follow this guide: https://wiki.blender.org/wiki/Process/Bug_Reports Removing tags like #bf_blender can make the report go unnoticed.

Vanessa Dannenberg commented

2021-02-05 17:04:11 +01:00

Sorry about that, I renamed the file and forgot to update it here. For something simpler, here's just the five pieces that make up the back corner pictured above:

back corner.blend.zip

And my startup and config/theme files:

vanessa-blender-configs.zip

Sorry about that, I renamed the file and forgot to update it here. For something simpler, here's just the five pieces that make up the back corner pictured above: [back corner.blend.zip](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F9654510/back_corner.blend.zip) And my startup and config/theme files: [vanessa-blender-configs.zip](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F9654516/vanessa-blender-configs.zip)

Germano Cavalcante commented

2021-02-05 17:45:12 +01:00

Changed status from 'Needs Triage' to: 'Needs Developer To Reproduce'

Germano Cavalcante commented

2021-02-05 17:45:12 +01:00

I can't find the custom theme in the attached files.
Custom themes are usually saved as an XML file under scripts/presets/interface_theme.

Windows
%APPDATA%\Blender Foundation\Blender\[YOUR VERSION]\scripts\presets\interface_theme\

Mac OSX
/Users/$USER/Library/Application Support/Blender/[YOUR VERSION]/scripts/presets/interface_theme/

Linux
$HOME/.config/blender/[YOUR VERSION]/scripts/presets/interface_theme/

But with the file attached, I can now better understand the problem described in the report. (I couldn't understand what was in front or behind in that image).
So basically:

In blender 2.79, the wireframe of objects in edit mode was drawn in front of the wireframe of all other objects in the scene.
In blender 2.80 onwards, this doesn't happen anymore.

I'm not sure if I can confirm this as a bug because apparently that behavior in blender 2.79 was not intentional.
It also reminds me of #78482 (Selection is covered by unselected geometry in ortho display)

I suggest you report this as feature requests through other channels:: https://wiki.blender.org/wiki/Communication/Contact#User_Feedback_and_Requests

I can't find the custom theme in the attached files. Custom themes are usually saved as an `XML` file under `scripts/presets/interface_theme`. **Windows** `%APPDATA%\Blender Foundation\Blender\[YOUR VERSION]\scripts\presets\interface_theme\` **Mac OSX** `/Users/$USER/Library/Application Support/Blender/[YOUR VERSION]/scripts/presets/interface_theme/` **Linux** `$HOME/.config/blender/[YOUR VERSION]/scripts/presets/interface_theme/` --- But with the file attached, I can now better understand the problem described in the report. (I couldn't understand what was in front or behind in that image). So basically: - In blender 2.79, the wireframe of objects in edit mode was drawn in front of the wireframe of all other objects in the scene. - In blender 2.80 onwards, this doesn't happen anymore. I'm not sure if I can confirm this as a bug because apparently that behavior in blender 2.79 was not intentional. It also reminds me of #78482 (Selection is covered by unselected geometry in ortho display) I suggest you report this as feature requests through other channels:: https://wiki.blender.org/wiki/Communication/Contact#User_Feedback_and_Requests

Vanessa Dannenberg commented

2021-02-05 18:53:51 +01:00

Well I feel like an idiot now :-) Ok, here's the REAL theme file:

classic-look.xml

(It never occurred to me to look into the /presets/ directory, it's a word I wouldn't associate with a theme file)

I'm not sure I agree with how you put it. Sure, if it was unintentional, that by itself is a bug, but that "bug" made things MUCH easier to see, so having "fixed" it makes it more of a regression than a bugfix. Of course, https://xkcd.com/1172/ comes to mind as well...

Well I feel like an idiot now :-) Ok, here's the REAL theme file: [classic-look.xml](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F9654628/classic-look.xml) (It never occurred to me to look into the `/presets/` directory, it's a word I wouldn't associate with a theme file) I'm not sure I agree with how you put it. Sure, if it was unintentional, that by itself is a bug, but that "bug" made things MUCH easier to see, so having "fixed" it makes it more of a regression than a bugfix. Of course, https://xkcd.com/1172/ comes to mind as well...

Germano Cavalcante commented

2021-02-05 19:49:33 +01:00

I edited the description to make the problem easier to understand, but the final decision is for the #eevee_viewport or #user_interface team.
The selection issue is a duplicate of #78482 which has already been confirmed as a TODO.

I edited the description to make the problem easier to understand, but the final decision is for the #eevee_viewport or #user_interface team. The selection issue is a duplicate of #78482 which has already been confirmed as a TODO.

Paul Kotelevets commented

2021-02-09 12:33:12 +01:00

Added subscriber: @1D_Inc

Paul Kotelevets commented

2021-02-09 12:33:12 +01:00

In #79204#1107822, @mano-wii wrote:
The selection issue is a duplicate of #78482 which has already been confirmed as a TODO.

It seems to be different - #78482 is about closing selection with unselected geometry in edit mode (self-closing), and this one is about draworder in object mode as well.
But the problem with the workflow (workflow issue) is the same - both make it difficult to detect and work with linear / CAD geometry.
Edit mode issue make it hard to work with complex linear objects and this one - with complex linear assemblies, flooding selected/edited object with unnecessary details, makes it harder to percept its real shape.

A comparison: edit mode.
In the right case (2.9) object looks way more complex than it actually is, while in the left case (2.79) there is no problem with its mesh shape recognition, so you can easily detect that it is just a simple extrusion with no imaginary holes.
Basically, when you fall into wireframe mode, you expect to concentrate on your selection, not surrounding objects that already covers your selected object in shaded mode.

Object mode.
A shape of the object in 2.79 is much more recognisable, in 2.9 you have to enter isolation mode to understand how selected element looks like.

In my opinion #78482 is more critical, because object mode at least have an isolation ability that allow somehow to survive through cognitive overload even if it is less comfortable way to work
(if repetitive enabling-disabling isolation mode at every single selection can be called "comfortable" at any point).
Anyway, it would be nice to have a draworder option for cases like this.

> In #79204#1107822, @mano-wii wrote: > The selection issue is a duplicate of #78482 which has already been confirmed as a TODO. It seems to be different - #78482 is about closing selection with unselected geometry in edit mode (self-closing), and this one is about draworder in object mode as well. But the problem with the workflow (workflow issue) is the same - both make it difficult to detect and work with linear / CAD geometry. Edit mode issue make it hard to work with complex linear objects and this one - with complex linear assemblies, flooding selected/edited object with unnecessary details, makes it harder to percept its real shape. A comparison: edit mode. In the right case (2.9) object looks way more complex than it actually is, while in the left case (2.79) there is no problem with its mesh shape recognition, so you can easily detect that it is just a simple extrusion with no imaginary holes. Basically, when you fall into wireframe mode, you expect to concentrate on your selection, not surrounding objects that already covers your selected object in shaded mode. ![image.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F9748607/image.png) Object mode. A shape of the object in 2.79 is much more recognisable, in 2.9 you have to enter isolation mode to understand how selected element looks like. ![image.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F9748869/image.png) In my opinion #78482 is more critical, because object mode at least have an isolation ability that allow somehow to survive through cognitive overload even if it is less comfortable way to work (if repetitive enabling-disabling isolation mode at every single selection can be called "comfortable" at any point). Anyway, it would be nice to have a draworder option for cases like this.

Paul Kotelevets commented

2021-02-10 17:47:22 +01:00

A couple of examples
Selected object is almost completely hidden, so you can't recognize it without isolation

object is completely covered with unslected geometry in ortho, so you can't even detect a selection (GIF).

A couple of examples Selected object is almost completely hidden, so you can't recognize it without isolation ![image.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F9771289/image.png) ![image.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F9771527/image.png) ![image.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F9771980/image.png) object is completely covered with unslected geometry in ortho, so you can't even detect a selection (GIF). ![Backface.gif](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F9771299/Backface.gif)

Germano Cavalcante commented

2021-02-10 19:33:34 +01:00

@1D_Inc, it might be a good idea to contact the developers of #eevee_viewport and #user_interface directly to give this task a higher priority.
https://wiki.blender.org/wiki/Communication/Contact#User_Feedback_and_Requests

@1D_Inc, it might be a good idea to contact the developers of #eevee_viewport and #user_interface directly to give this task a higher priority. https://wiki.blender.org/wiki/Communication/Contact#User_Feedback_and_Requests

Paul Kotelevets commented

2021-02-11 04:43:48 +01:00

Well, yes, this is clearly design problem.
I am currently trying to collect all the similar issues considering wireframes in a single tread, to make them nicely observable.

https://devtalk.blender.org/t/blender-2-8-wireframes-discussion/666/373?u=1d_inc

Well, yes, this is clearly design problem. I am currently trying to collect all the similar issues considering wireframes in a single tread, to make them nicely observable. https://devtalk.blender.org/t/blender-2-8-wireframes-discussion/666/373?u=1d_inc

Eugene Du commented

2021-02-14 10:01:16 +01:00

Added subscriber: @APEC

Philipp Oeser removed the

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Objects in front of the selection stay in front in wireframe mode #79204