Ambient Occlusion shader Max samples value can be set above 16 #80083

New Issue

Ludvik Koutny · 2020-08-24T19:07:31+02:00

Ludvik Koutny commented

2020-08-24 19:07:31 +02:00

System Information
Operating system: Windows-10-10.0.19041-SP0 64 Bits
Graphics card: GeForce GTX 1080 Ti/PCIe/SSE2 NVIDIA Corporation 4.5.0 NVIDIA 451.77

Blender Version
Broken: version: 2.83.5, branch: master (modified), commit date: 2020-08-19 06:07, hash: c2b144df39
Worked: (newest version of Blender that worked as expected)

Short description of error
According to https://developer.blender.org/T80012 , ability to set high amount of samples (above 16) in nodes which use distance tracing to compute the result is an issue, since according to the explanation under the aforementioned task, these nodes are too expensive for any higher value to be used. Ambient Occlusion shader uses also distance tracing, yet the samples value can be set above 16. Therefore it must be a bug.

Exact steps for others to reproduce the error

Open the attached blend file: AOSamples.zip
Notice the AO shader map samples can be set above 16
Result: AO shader map samples can be set above 16
Expected: Based on bug triage staff explanation under https://developer.blender.org/T80012 , no expensive to computer shader nodes should be able to have their samples value set above 16.

**System Information** Operating system: Windows-10-10.0.19041-SP0 64 Bits Graphics card: GeForce GTX 1080 Ti/PCIe/SSE2 NVIDIA Corporation 4.5.0 NVIDIA 451.77 **Blender Version** Broken: version: 2.83.5, branch: master (modified), commit date: 2020-08-19 06:07, hash: `c2b144df39` Worked: (newest version of Blender that worked as expected) **Short description of error** According to https://developer.blender.org/T80012 , ability to set high amount of samples (above 16) in nodes which use distance tracing to compute the result is an issue, since according to the explanation under the aforementioned task, these nodes are too expensive for any higher value to be used. Ambient Occlusion shader uses also distance tracing, yet the samples value can be set above 16. Therefore it must be a bug. **Exact steps for others to reproduce the error** 1. Open the attached blend file: [AOSamples.zip](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8808631/AOSamples.zip) 2. Notice the AO shader map samples can be set above 16 Result: AO shader map samples can be set above 16 Expected: Based on bug triage staff explanation under https://developer.blender.org/T80012 , no expensive to computer shader nodes should be able to have their samples value set above 16.

Ludvik Koutny commented

2020-08-24 19:07:31 +02:00

Added subscriber: @Rawalanche

Philipp Oeser commented

2020-08-25 11:00:37 +02:00

Added subscriber: @lichtwerk

Philipp Oeser commented

2020-08-25 11:00:37 +02:00

I would argue that AO and Bevel are not exactly the same thing, so it might make sense to fire more samples at AO.

Nevertheless, I would rather up the property range for the Bevel node while [@Rawalanche: this would probably solve the isses in #80012, right?] than cap the limit for AO...
D8701: Fix #80012: Bevel Shader node Samples value has too low hardcoded limit

I would argue that AO and Bevel are not exactly the same thing, so it might make sense to fire more samples at AO. Nevertheless, I would rather up the property range for the Bevel node while [@Rawalanche: this would probably solve the isses in #80012, right?] than cap the limit for AO... [D8701: Fix #80012: Bevel Shader node Samples value has too low hardcoded limit](https://archive.blender.org/developer/D8701)

Ludvik Koutny commented

2020-08-25 11:21:30 +02:00

In #80083#1002224, @lichtwerk wrote:
I would argue that AO and Bevel are not exactly the same thing, so it might make sense to fire more samples at AO.

Nevertheless, I would rather up the property range for the Bevel node while [@Rawalanche: this would probably solve the isses in #80012, right?] than cap the limit for AO...
D8701: Fix #80012: Bevel Shader node Samples value has too low hardcoded limit

Yes, I reported this just to show how the reason for rejecting #80012 conflicts with common sense and consistency. I of course don't want Max AO samples harcoded limit lowered ;)

Also, in case of of using Bevel just for rendertime bevel, I agree that lower amount of samples may be enough. But the thing here is that Blender gives us a complete node based editor with as low level tools as elementary geometry shading components and vector math / transform nodes. So it doesn't make much sense to make such strong assumptions on how people are going to utilize these shading nodes. Here's an example of the Bevel node creative usage specifically:
https://blenderartists.org/t/quick-procedural-shading-tip-bevel-shader-mask/1248242

> In #80083#1002224, @lichtwerk wrote: > I would argue that AO and Bevel are not exactly the same thing, so it might make sense to fire more samples at AO. > > Nevertheless, I would rather up the property range for the Bevel node while [@Rawalanche: this would probably solve the isses in #80012, right?] than cap the limit for AO... > [D8701: Fix #80012: Bevel Shader node Samples value has too low hardcoded limit](https://archive.blender.org/developer/D8701) Yes, I reported this just to show how the reason for rejecting #80012 conflicts with common sense and consistency. I of course don't want Max AO samples harcoded limit lowered ;) Also, in case of of using Bevel just for rendertime bevel, I agree that lower amount of samples may be enough. But the thing here is that Blender gives us a complete node based editor with as low level tools as elementary geometry shading components and vector math / transform nodes. So it doesn't make much sense to make such strong assumptions on how people are going to utilize these shading nodes. Here's an example of the Bevel node creative usage specifically: https://blenderartists.org/t/quick-procedural-shading-tip-bevel-shader-mask/1248242

Philipp Oeser commented

2020-08-25 11:58:39 +02:00

Changed status from 'Needs Triage' to: 'Archived'

Philipp Oeser closed this issue

2020-08-25 11:58:39 +02:00

Philipp Oeser self-assigned this 2020-08-25 11:58:39 +02:00

Philipp Oeser commented

2020-08-25 11:58:39 +02:00

@Rawalanche : D8701: Fix #80012: Bevel Shader node Samples value has too low hardcoded limit has been accepted, will commit in a bit (raises the Bevel limit to 128 just like AO, but leaves the UI "soft" limit at 16).

That would leave us with this report being "invalid", but I guess this is what you expected ;)

@Rawalanche : [D8701: Fix #80012: Bevel Shader node Samples value has too low hardcoded limit](https://archive.blender.org/developer/D8701) has been accepted, will commit in a bit (raises the Bevel limit to 128 just like AO, but leaves the UI "soft" limit at 16). That would leave us with this report being "invalid", but I guess this is what you expected ;)

Ludvik Koutny commented

2020-08-25 12:31:31 +02:00

In #80083#1002294, @lichtwerk wrote:
@Rawalanche : D8701: Fix #80012: Bevel Shader node Samples value has too low hardcoded limit has been accepted, will commit in a bit (raises the Bevel limit to 128 just like AO, but leaves the UI "soft" limit at 16).

That would leave us with this report being "invalid", but I guess this is what you expected ;)

Yup :) Thank you.

> In #80083#1002294, @lichtwerk wrote: > @Rawalanche : [D8701: Fix #80012: Bevel Shader node Samples value has too low hardcoded limit](https://archive.blender.org/developer/D8701) has been accepted, will commit in a bit (raises the Bevel limit to 128 just like AO, but leaves the UI "soft" limit at 16). > > That would leave us with this report being "invalid", but I guess this is what you expected ;) Yup :) Thank you.

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Ambient Occlusion shader Max samples value can be set above 16 #80083