Problem with parenting, linking and collections (missed function as "Component" - need this as necessarily) #86052

New Issue

ManBlender · 2021-02-27T16:17:50+01:00

ManBlender commented

2021-02-27 16:17:50 +01:00

As Sketchup user I know Componentfunction and as Blender user looking this funtion, then I discovering that this not exist as usefull function.
https://blender.stackexchange.com/questions/67395/blender-equivalent-of-components-in-sketchup ..then suprise.. no exist.
I want modify some object and reach this same modification on parenting, linking and collections (any of this combinations not speent the real needs), thats why we need in blender the "Component" type in functions around Object.

Can be some pentagon icon (quantum, atom, or hierarchical in down icon [more far as tree] as bracket down).
With this I need option to recognize the Component on Scene tree outline and manage - click to show me this components.

It's funny that I like use more often Sketchup by this leak support of repliacted changes and hard managment of gorups. Collections changing something, but is still far for comfy using and manage objects.

Soo..
I'm clickick spaceber (animation play is turned off), have selected, selecting all (opss, wrong.. need ESC to deselect all - need this function too), again spacebar (but fast)

Slecet
Add
Object - (pushing key 3 - the 3 and other number are available next to on menu for any of function, to fast select by number keys - without mouse as option [on/off in preference] id_funtion)
Collections
Transform
Snap to

--
7. Camera
8. View

--
9. Add modifier
10. x - delete

Due this type small issues, Bleender shoud have "live" update and info about option to update with list of FIX, changes. I'm tired with downloading full of new version.
And the grid shoud be as ground in sketchup to snap object to this grids, not like transparent mesh in whole horizont depent angle, this made disonanse, but can be this option seted in preference.
I know is to much all in this issue regarding PO RFR pratice, but I'm rarery here, and hope that can be a piece to solve important problem.

As Sketchup user I know **Component**function and as Blender user looking this funtion, then I discovering that this not exist as usefull function. https://blender.stackexchange.com/questions/67395/blender-equivalent-of-components-in-sketchup ..then suprise.. no exist. I want modify some object and reach this same modification on parenting, linking and collections (any of this combinations not speent the real needs), thats why we need in blender the "Component" type in functions around Object. Can be some pentagon icon (quantum, atom, or hierarchical in down icon [more far as tree] as bracket down). With this I need option to recognize the Component on Scene tree outline and manage - click to show me this components. It's funny that I like use more often Sketchup by this leak support of repliacted changes and hard managment of gorups. Collections changing something, but is still far for comfy using and manage objects. Soo.. I'm clickick spaceber (animation play is turned off), have selected, selecting all (opss, wrong.. need ESC to deselect all - need this function too), again spacebar (but fast) 1. Slecet 2. Add 3. Object - (pushing key 3 - the 3 and other number are available next to on menu for any of function, to fast select by number keys - without mouse as option [on/off in preference] id_funtion) 4. Collections 5. Transform 6. Snap to -- 7. Camera 8. View -- 9. Add modifier 10. x - delete Due this type small issues, Bleender shoud have "live" update and info about option to update with list of FIX, changes. I'm tired with downloading full of new version. And the grid shoud be as ground in sketchup to snap object to this grids, not like transparent mesh in whole horizont depent angle, this made disonanse, but can be this option seted in preference. I know is to much all in this issue regarding PO RFR pratice, but I'm rarery here, and hope that can be a piece to solve important problem.

ManBlender commented

2021-02-27 16:17:50 +01:00

Added subscriber: @ManBlender

ManBlender commented

2021-02-27 16:19:21 +01:00

Changed status from 'Needs Triage' to: 'Confirmed'

Philipp Oeser commented

2021-03-02 11:20:58 +01:00

Changed status from 'Confirmed' to: 'Needs Triage'

ManBlender commented

2021-03-02 19:04:11 +01:00

{F9860825 =size=50}

Create Componet is like "empty" space/instance or collection, where I can Add other opject

{F9860833 size=100%}

Shorctucts on menu to navigate by numbers as headers for functions

{[F9860825](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F9860825/Component.png) =size=50} Create Componet is like "empty" space/instance or collection, where I can Add other opject {[F9860833](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F9860833/Shortcuts.png) size=100%} Shorctucts on menu to navigate by numbers as headers for functions

ManBlender commented

2021-03-11 01:23:46 +01:00

To attention the add-on that offering import .skp files, but blocking recognize components and working with them in blender like in sketchup
https://github.com/arindam-m/pyslapi

To attention the add-on that offering import .skp files, but blocking recognize components and working with them in blender like in sketchup https://github.com/arindam-m/pyslapi

ManBlender commented

2021-03-11 02:44:58 +01:00

Want explain this more..
Eg. when we have object like Cube, and this Cube is in some colection, then when we coping colection this not react on viewport scene in right way. We don't see diferences, eg. we must hide collection2 to move, and turn back to visible collection1.
Eg. when want modify deph linked object, eg. add Cylinder to Cube, then must do this in Modeling Edit mode, not Layout. And when I made this in layout hard to move this to linked object. Added object in edit mode liek Cube/etc.. should list on outliner this new object.
Should exist option to move Cylinder in outline window to linked cubes as Component. In other way any object that we adding is outgruped and not related in GUI, even we doing join, then hard to recoginzes these joints too, as some group (this is bad fault for UX disonanse). Join should build Component that in hierarchy have objects.
If I coping some Colection1 with cubes, and changing names of cubes in Colection2 then names should changes in both as Colection1 and Colection2, but maybe not in Colection1 and Colection2 but in Component1 and Componet2.
Hvr Sketchup solved changes as separated not related to give option for Component as "Unique" atribute, and Componets can be in other Component and this is good pratice to manage this all.

When we are on Laout and clicked object like Cube, to edit we must go to Modeling. In my opinion should exist option to 2x click on object like Cube to reach modeling option like some instance, and if in this object have other objects like components, then we going in dept. Backing is by Esc to turn back in hierarchy. Anyway clicking depth linked obecjest on Laouyt should focus all that are linked to recognize, this same should be on layout.

https://blender.community/c/rightclickselect/Fghbbc/ - other comments related to the problem

Want explain this more.. Eg. when we have object like Cube, and this Cube is in some colection, then when we coping colection this not react on viewport scene in right way. We don't see diferences, eg. we must hide collection2 to move, and turn back to visible collection1. Eg. when want modify deph linked object, eg. add Cylinder to Cube, then must do this in Modeling Edit mode, not Layout. And when I made this in layout hard to move this to linked object. Added object in edit mode liek Cube/etc.. should list on outliner this new object. Should exist option to move Cylinder in outline window to linked cubes as Component. In other way any object that we adding is outgruped and not related in GUI, even we doing join, then hard to recoginzes these joints too, as some group (this is bad fault for UX disonanse). **Join should build Component that in hierarchy have objects.** If I coping some Colection1 with cubes, and changing names of cubes in Colection2 then names should changes in both as Colection1 and Colection2, but maybe not in Colection1 and Colection2 but in Component1 and Componet2. Hvr Sketchup solved changes as separated not related to give option for Component as "**Unique**" atribute, and Componets can be in other Component and this is good pratice to manage this all. When we are on Laout and clicked object like Cube, to edit we must go to Modeling. In my opinion should exist option to 2x click on object like Cube to reach modeling option like some instance, and if in this object have other objects like components, then we going in dept. Backing is by Esc to turn back in hierarchy. Anyway clicking depth linked obecjest on Laouyt should focus all that are linked to recognize, this same should be on layout. https://blender.community/c/rightclickselect/Fghbbc/ - other comments related to the problem

ManBlender commented

2021-03-11 03:05:58 +01:00

Next bug is, when we clicking in outliner by RCM on Colection to do Duplicate Linked, the Colection2 no reacting from Colection.

ManBlender commented

2021-03-11 03:09:56 +01:00

I'm on position that Collection is not needed, whole functions should be implemented as "Component" with hierarchy of objecst as cube, cylinder, etc.
Or Collection as list of whole object as mode without hierarchy in component. Then "Collection of all objects" (I mind sorting object without grouping/parenting or realtions with this for outliner).
But.. after time Collections can have sense in Linked or Append to import Components from Collections and more easy manage this. But instance of Collections is bad, and editable Components is berher way. Or.. Collection can be like mode not editable bu repeated on sene.

I'm on position that Collection is not needed, whole functions should be implemented as "Component" with hierarchy of objecst as cube, cylinder, etc. Or Collection as list of whole object as mode without hierarchy in component. Then "Collection of all objects" (I mind sorting object without grouping/parenting or realtions with this for outliner). But.. after time Collections can have sense in Linked or Append to import Components from Collections and more easy manage this. But instance of Collections is bad, and editable Components is berher way. Or.. Collection can be like mode not editable bu repeated on sene.

ManBlender commented

2021-03-13 20:02:32 +01:00

@ dev
You can read here more info about problems, where conclusion is about not intuitive solution around Collections.
https://blender.community/c/rightclickselect/Kghbbc/#604c0aa69c1221506a8c36ce Working with external files as components (This is very important)
Main conclusion is about Collections position in outline like "dir" not object. Next lack of function like "unJoin" or "Explode" for Join without destroy for names of ojbects and hierarchy of this.

There is good side of parenting as function where objects following by main parent object, but hard to operate by child (eg. moving whole related object to edge/face by children). This solving more Join funtion, but givinng bad side for working parts of whole completed shape.
Collections not solving many things here in my opinion.
https://blender.community/c/rightclickselect/hhhbbc/ - Viewport Overlay option to show Origin of the active Collection

@ dev You can read here more info about problems, where conclusion is about not intuitive solution around Collections. https://blender.community/c/rightclickselect/Kghbbc/#604c0aa69c1221506a8c36ce Working with external files as components (This is very important) Main conclusion is about Collections position in outline like "dir" not object. Next lack of function like "unJoin" or "Explode" for Join without destroy for names of ojbects and hierarchy of this. There is good side of parenting as function where objects following by main parent object, but hard to operate by child (eg. moving whole related object to edge/face by children). This solving more Join funtion, but givinng bad side for working parts of whole completed shape. Collections not solving many things here in my opinion. https://blender.community/c/rightclickselect/hhhbbc/ - Viewport Overlay option to show Origin of the active Collection

ManBlender commented

2021-03-13 20:30:10 +01:00

Take stron attention for outliner hierarchy and lables on viewport to understand optimized hierarchy and relations + option to operate by names (D&D) on outliner

Sketchup_component_imported.blend
Sketchup_component_imported to blender and sketchp files.zip

Take stron attention for outliner hierarchy and lables on viewport to understand optimized hierarchy and relations + option to operate by names (D&D) on outliner ![Sketchup_component.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F9889465/Sketchup_component.png) ![screen_sketchup_import.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F9889473/screen_sketchup_import.png) [Sketchup_component_imported.blend](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F9889475/Sketchup_component_imported.blend) [Sketchup_component_imported to blender and sketchp files.zip](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F9889479/Sketchup_component_imported_to_blender_and_sketchp_files.zip)

ManBlender commented

2021-04-30 20:26:45 +02:00

https://blender.community/c/rightclickselect/Kghbbc/#608c4b4b9c122129ebc1dd54 More Explanations
https://blender.community/c/rightclickselect/nnhbbc/ Parent for objects - new functions
https://blender.community/c/rightclickselect/pnhbbc/ Duplicate objects - problem and suggestion

The important limitation is no option to add collection in Edit mode, where component should offer option to put in this.

https://blender.community/c/rightclickselect/Fghbbc/ Linked-duplicates detect faster

https://blender.community/c/rightclickselect/Kghbbc/#608c4b4b9c122129ebc1dd54 More Explanations https://blender.community/c/rightclickselect/nnhbbc/ Parent for objects - new functions https://blender.community/c/rightclickselect/pnhbbc/ Duplicate objects - problem and suggestion The important limitation is no option to add collection in Edit mode, where component should offer option to put in this. https://blender.community/c/rightclickselect/Fghbbc/ Linked-duplicates detect faster

ManBlender commented

2021-04-30 20:28:47 +02:00

Changed status from 'Needs Triage' to: 'Confirmed'

ManBlender commented

2021-04-30 20:28:47 +02:00

Added subscribers: @thinsoldier, @Ton

ManBlender commented

2021-04-30 20:58:14 +02:00

Added subscribers: @dfelinto, @Jeroen-Bakker, @jiri

ManBlender commented

2021-04-30 21:51:15 +02:00

This can be "married" with "Revert" (revert_mainfile) in way, that blender checking time of last file edit, and user can select linked files as components that can be updated.
Feature around this offering something like versioning and option for collab where some users can work with parts (like Autodesk part/assebmlies) as components.
To increase functionality, .blend can offer some higher history to back version as saved in file, to select version - https://blender.community/c/rightclickselect/qhhbbc/ History of events on viewport or other actions on GUI
Revert should be more like "Refresh".
https://blender.community/c/rightclickselect/2fhbbc/ Asset Browser: It would be better if asset browser's library list has sorting and grouping.

This can be "married" with "Revert" (revert_mainfile) in way, that blender checking time of last file edit, and user can select linked files as components that can be updated. Feature around this offering something like versioning and option for collab where some users can work with parts (like Autodesk part/assebmlies) as components. To increase functionality, .blend can offer some higher history to back version as saved in file, to select version - https://blender.community/c/rightclickselect/qhhbbc/ History of events on viewport or other actions on GUI Revert should be more like "Refresh". https://blender.community/c/rightclickselect/2fhbbc/ Asset Browser: It would be better if asset browser's library list has sorting and grouping.

ManBlender commented

2021-04-30 21:52:05 +02:00

Added subscriber: @lichtwerk

ManBlender commented

2021-05-01 17:36:43 +02:00

How I thinking about external files..
Well.. some of user trying use git for blender, eg. blendgit: https://github.com/ldo/blendgit (not working with b.2.92)
When we have .blend files with materials, etc. then .blend file is hudge (eg. 200MB when without is about 1MB), hard to saving this type as a1.blend a2.blend a3.blend, etc. (growing 200+200+200+200)
My idea was to to have ANY_object.blend in ANY_scene.blend where in ANY_scene.blend have materials, etc. that painting ANY_object.blend in case we can have many versions ANY_object_1.blend ANY_object_2.blend etc. but linked is always saved as ANY_object.blend and from this files all is conected to other.
Of course can have ANY_scene_1.blend ANY_scene_2.blend as other version, but for comfy work the main can be ANY_scene.blend in case does'nt mater the final.
For some reason should exist option to do "Append all linked" files, assets etc. eg. for remote rendering, etc. And maybe in diferent may as Subtract or Exclude some object to external files like export this assets.

How I thinking about external files.. Well.. some of user trying use git for blender, eg. blendgit: https://github.com/ldo/blendgit (not working with b.2.92) When we have .blend files with materials, etc. then .blend file is hudge (eg. 200MB when without is about 1MB), hard to saving this type as a1.blend a2.blend a3.blend, etc. (growing 200+200+200+200) My idea was to to have **ANY_object.blend** in **ANY_scene.blend** where in ANY_scene.blend have materials, etc. that painting ANY_object.blend in case we can have many versions ANY_object_1.blend ANY_object_2.blend etc. but linked is always saved as ANY_object.blend and from this files all is conected to other. Of course can have ANY_scene_1.blend ANY_scene_2.blend as other version, but for comfy work the main can be ANY_scene.blend in case does'nt mater the final. For some reason should exist option to do **"Append all linked"** files, assets etc. eg. for remote rendering, etc. And maybe in diferent may as Subtract or Exclude some object to external files like export this assets.

Robert Guetzkow commented

2021-05-01 18:28:34 +02:00

Added subscriber: @rjg
Removed subscribers: @lichtwerk, @jiri, @Jeroen-Bakker, @dfelinto, @Ton, @thinsoldier

Added subscriber: @rjg Removed subscribers: @lichtwerk, @jiri, @Jeroen-Bakker, @dfelinto, @Ton, @thinsoldier

Robert Guetzkow commented

2021-05-01 18:28:34 +02:00

Changed status from 'Confirmed' to: 'Archived'

Robert Guetzkow closed this issue

2021-05-01 18:28:34 +02:00

Robert Guetzkow commented

2021-05-01 18:28:34 +02:00

Please do not change the task priority or add subscribers, unless you've been asked to by one of the module members or the triaging team.

As explained in your other ticket, improvement suggestions and feature requests are unfortunately off-topic on the bug tracker. If you are a software developer and would like to help improve Blender by implementing your idea, please take a look at our wiki to get started. Patches are always welcome!

Please do not change the task priority or add subscribers, unless you've been asked to by one of the module members or the triaging team. As explained in your other ticket, improvement suggestions and feature requests are unfortunately off-topic on the bug tracker. If you are a software developer and would like to help improve Blender by implementing your idea, please take a look at our [wiki ](https://wiki.blender.org/wiki/Developer_Intro) to get started. Patches are always welcome!

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Problem with parenting, linking and collections (missed function as "Component" - need this as necessarily) #86052