Transfer Mode operator shortcut #87722

New Issue

Julien Kaspar · 2021-04-22T19:15:38+02:00

Julien Kaspar commented

2021-04-22 19:15:38 +02:00

This is an accumulation of related tasks and notes on the issues and possible approaches for the shortcut D for the transfer mode operator.
The intention for this is to explore alternative solutions for Blender 3.0. If no solution can be found it will stay on teh current shortcut.

The current solution

After a lot of discussion on this we landed on setting the shortcut on D (release) by default.
This has the advantage of not causing any direct conflict and is universally accessible for any mode & object type.
So this way the operator can grow into a very accessible, commonly used addition to everyone workflow.

A known issue with this is that Annotate is also on D, but instead as a modifier key. This means if a user is holding D to annotate, changes their mind and let's go of D, it will likely cause an accidental switch between objects. (#85538)

Ton also voiced his dissatisfaction with the shortcut choice. His suggestion was to tie it closer to selecting objects.

Transfer Mode via Selecting other Objects

If the toggle for "Lock Object Modes" is disabled in the Topbar -> Edit it will allow users to select and switch between object while in any mode.
Theoretically the transfer mode operator could become a part of this since its functionality is very similar.
The workflow and existing shortcuts for this are inconsistent based on the keymap and modes. So it is impossible to add another shortcut and instead needs a redesign in these shortcuts (Ideally without causing harm to existing workflows).

Current State

1: Select = Set another object as active by selecting the surface
2: Alt + Select = Set another object as active by selecting the surface (Will open a list menu if multiple objects are availible)
3: Ctrl + Select = Set another object as active by selecting the origin point
4: Ctrl + Shift + Select = Set another object as active by selecting the origin point (And keep the previous object selected)

This is not working in Edit Mode though. 1,2 & 4 do nothing and 3 only adds another object to the selection (It does not add it to multi-object Edit Mode).
Even when switching objects in the outliner it will actually exit edit mode.

On LCS the shortcuts are also a bit muddled. 3 only works on weight paint mode (Because of a conflict on Ctrl + LC is to invert the brush). 2 works everywhere but not in weight paint mode (because of a conflict with the gradient tool) and 4 works everywhere.
1, 2, 3 & 4 are also not working for particle edit mode in both LCS & RCS.

Proposal

If we want this to be a target we can look closer into this and update the shortcuts to include the transfer mode operator.
But it won't be an easy task.
So it could be for example based on this:
Select = Set another object as active by selecting the surface
Shift + Select = Set another object as active by selecting the origin point (And keep the previous object selected)
Ctrl + Select = Use the Transfer Mode operator (Set another object as active and use the same mode as the previous object)

There also needs to be a drag threshold in place for LCS for any brushes or tools that use these shortcut combination.
Then the object switching can happen on key release to remove any conflicts.
But this will make brushes inconvenient to use, unless the drag threshold behaviour gets improved.

There's also a very likely downside to using selection for object switching: It will happen by accident a lot!
So this route will not be the most popular one.

Point & Tab

Another shortcut I saw as an alternative is to use Tab. Right now tab is always switching to or from Edit Mode.
Instead Tab could be used for the Transfer Mode operator. There just needs to be a discussion if this can become the default behaviour (which is the most ideal outcome) or if it needs to be an option for the keymap preferences.
Either way, with this solution there needs to be an option to switch between the old and new Tab behaviour in the keymap.

This is an accumulation of related tasks and notes on the issues and possible approaches for the shortcut D for the transfer mode operator. The intention for this is to explore alternative solutions for Blender 3.0. If no solution can be found it will stay on teh current shortcut. ## The current solution After a lot of discussion on this we landed on setting the shortcut on D (release) by default. This has the advantage of not causing any direct conflict and is universally accessible for any mode & object type. So this way the operator can grow into a very accessible, commonly used addition to everyone workflow. A known issue with this is that Annotate is also on D, but instead as a modifier key. This means if a user is holding D to annotate, changes their mind and let's go of D, it will likely cause an accidental switch between objects. (#85538) Ton also voiced his dissatisfaction with the shortcut choice. His suggestion was to tie it closer to selecting objects. ## Transfer Mode via Selecting other Objects If the toggle for "Lock Object Modes" is disabled in the Topbar -> Edit it will allow users to select and switch between object while in any mode. Theoretically the transfer mode operator could become a part of this since its functionality is very similar. The workflow and existing shortcuts for this are inconsistent based on the keymap and modes. So it is impossible to add another shortcut and instead needs a redesign in these shortcuts (Ideally without causing harm to existing workflows). ### Current State 1: Select = Set another object as active by selecting the surface 2: Alt + Select = Set another object as active by selecting the surface (Will open a list menu if multiple objects are availible) 3: Ctrl + Select = Set another object as active by selecting the origin point 4: Ctrl + Shift + Select = Set another object as active by selecting the origin point (And keep the previous object selected) This is not working in Edit Mode though. 1,2 & 4 do nothing and 3 only adds another object to the selection (It does not add it to multi-object Edit Mode). Even when switching objects in the outliner it will actually exit edit mode. On LCS the shortcuts are also a bit muddled. 3 only works on weight paint mode (Because of a conflict on Ctrl + LC is to invert the brush). 2 works everywhere but not in weight paint mode (because of a conflict with the gradient tool) and 4 works everywhere. 1, 2, 3 & 4 are also not working for particle edit mode in both LCS & RCS. ### Proposal If we want this to be a target we can look closer into this and update the shortcuts to include the transfer mode operator. But it won't be an easy task. So it could be for example based on this: Select = Set another object as active by selecting the surface Shift + Select = Set another object as active by selecting the origin point (And keep the previous object selected) Ctrl + Select = Use the Transfer Mode operator (Set another object as active and use the same mode as the previous object) There also needs to be a drag threshold in place for LCS for any brushes or tools that use these shortcut combination. Then the object switching can happen on key release to remove any conflicts. But this will make brushes inconvenient to use, unless the drag threshold behaviour gets improved. There's also a very likely downside to using selection for object switching: It will happen by accident a lot! So this route will not be the most popular one. ## Point & Tab Another shortcut I saw as an alternative is to use Tab. Right now tab is always switching to or from Edit Mode. Instead Tab could be used for the Transfer Mode operator. There just needs to be a discussion if this can become the default behaviour (which is the most ideal outcome) or if it needs to be an option for the keymap preferences. Either way, with this solution there needs to be an option to switch between the old and new Tab behaviour in the keymap. ## Next We'll conduct more discussions on this and a closer look at how this can be done and what's the best course of action. Perhaps there are more solutions to this than outlined right now. If no satisfactory alternative can be found then the operator will stay on the shortcut D.

Pablo Dobarro was assigned by Julien Kaspar

2021-04-22 19:15:38 +02:00

Julien Kaspar commented

2021-04-22 19:15:38 +02:00

Added subscribers: @JulienKaspar, @SirPigeonz, @Sychuan, @Wesley-Rossi, @MeshVoid, @dfelinto, @pablovazquez, @PabloDobarro

Pablo Vazquez commented

2021-05-21 00:49:31 +02:00

In a meeting today we discussed the mode switching shortcuts, and having the transfer mode operator be assigned to the key left to 1 (mapping it on a hardware level, so it's consistent in place in different keyboard layouts). Results of the discussion are in #88071.

In a meeting today we discussed the mode switching shortcuts, and having the transfer mode operator be assigned to the key left to `1` (mapping it on a hardware level, so it's consistent in place in different keyboard layouts). Results of the discussion are in #88071.

Julien Kaspar commented

2021-08-19 11:31:22 +02:00

@PabloDobarro I think it makes sense to close this task since the Alt + Q shortcut shortcut is so far the most reliable solution that doesn't interfer with any other existing shortcuts.
Do you agree?

@PabloDobarro I think it makes sense to close this task since the Alt + Q shortcut shortcut is so far the most reliable solution that doesn't interfer with any other existing shortcuts. Do you agree?

dupoxy commented

2021-08-19 12:09:11 +02:00

Added subscriber: @dupoxy