Copy objects - bad usage (impossible to move, cut, etc. other bugs) #88724

New Issue

ManBlender · 2021-06-01T17:11:08+02:00

ManBlender commented

2021-06-01 17:11:08 +02:00

System Information
Operating system: Windows-10-10.0.18362-SP0 64 Bits
Graphics card: GeForce GTX 1650 Ti/PCIe/SSE2 NVIDIA Corporation 4.5.0 NVIDIA 456.71

Blender Version
Broken: version: 2.92.0, branch: master, commit date: 2021-02-24 16:25, hash: 02948a2cab
Worked: (newest version of Blender that worked as expected)

Short description of error

There is function Copy objects - but is impossible to move, cut, etc. if in some case this object egsit in "Objects"
On outliner for:
a) Scenes - not exist effect of move [Right panel on image]

Eg. Colletion not confirming that some object is moved and exist in collection (looks like empty and this made disoansne in relation to point.b) bellow)

b) Blender file - exit after move [Left panel on image]

it's possible to add Collection with object, and it's added to Objects tree

Exact steps for others to reproduce the error

Copy Cube as objects (ctr+c) from test1.blend
Pasty Cube as obejct (ctr+v) to test2.blend

this made something like "Objects" (but not always)

After exist in objects the Cube is imposible to operate on outliner "Scenes"

copy_test.blend

**System Information** Operating system: Windows-10-10.0.18362-SP0 64 Bits Graphics card: GeForce GTX 1650 Ti/PCIe/SSE2 NVIDIA Corporation 4.5.0 NVIDIA 456.71 **Blender Version** Broken: version: 2.92.0, branch: master, commit date: 2021-02-24 16:25, hash: `02948a2cab` Worked: (newest version of Blender that worked as expected) **Short description of error** 1. There is function Copy objects - but is impossible to move, cut, etc. if in some case this object egsit in "Objects" 2. On outliner for: a) Scenes - not exist effect of move [Right panel on image] - Eg. Colletion not confirming that some object is moved and exist in collection (looks like empty and this made disoansne in relation to point.b) bellow) b) Blender file - exit after move [Left panel on image] - it's possible to add Collection with object, and it's added to Objects tree **Exact steps for others to reproduce the error** 1. Copy Cube as objects (ctr+c) from test1.blend 2. Pasty Cube as obejct (ctr+v) to test2.blend - this made something like "Objects" (but not always) 3. After exist in objects the Cube is imposible to operate on outliner "Scenes" [copy_test.blend](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F10152989/copy_test.blend) ![copy_test.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F10152986/copy_test.png)

ManBlender commented

2021-06-01 17:11:08 +02:00

Added subscriber: @ManBlender

Philipp Oeser commented

2021-08-20 09:37:10 +02:00

Added subscriber: @lichtwerk

Philipp Oeser commented

2021-08-20 09:37:10 +02:00

Changed status from 'Needs Triage' to: 'Needs User Info'

Philipp Oeser commented

2021-08-20 09:37:10 +02:00

Reproduction steps are not clear to me:

I copy Cube from copy_test.blend (via {key Ctrl C} in the Outliner)

should I paste into an empty scene?
should I paste into another open copy_test.blend?

this made something like "Objects" (but not always)

I always have this in Outliner scene view (even if there are no objects at all

After exist in objects the Cube is impossible to operate on Outliner "Scenes"

Which exact things are "impossible"

Reproduction steps are not clear to me: I copy Cube from `copy_test.blend` (via {key Ctrl C} in the Outliner) - should I paste into an empty scene? - should I paste into another open `copy_test.blend`? > this made something like "Objects" (but not always) I always have this in Outliner scene view (even if there are no objects at all > After exist in objects the Cube is impossible to operate on Outliner "Scenes" Which exact things are "impossible"

ManBlender commented

2021-08-20 16:24:45 +02:00

I'm not using more 2.92.0 and don't see this effect on 2.93, 3.0alpha but here is other issue where moving object in Outliner Scene not moving cube but like duplicate.
https://recordit.co/i7PBP9rfoj

I always have this in Outliner scene view (even if there are no objects at all

but even copied and exist object then was empty but visible in File (I think that due 2.92 version and not observed in 2.93 this issue should be closed or fixed with upper problem what showing to solve disonanse)

Which exact things are "impossible"

Move from objects to collection some object like on movie. Note that if copied from blender to blender then I not saw the cube in objects but was on vieport and the Blender file. It's looks like some "refresh" issue around tree lists.

Can be related with https://developer.blender.org/T89288

I'm not sure about the situation here. In case can touch problem around "file written by newer blender binary expect loss of data" when working in 2 version of blender, eg. 2.93 and 3.0 also coping objects between can do for user problems? Maybe I should not do this more..

I'm not using more 2.92.0 and don't see this effect on 2.93, 3.0alpha but here is other issue where moving object in Outliner Scene not moving cube but like duplicate. https://recordit.co/i7PBP9rfoj > I always have this in Outliner scene view (even if there are no objects at all - but even copied and exist object then was empty but visible in File (I think that due 2.92 version and not observed in 2.93 this issue should be closed or fixed with upper problem what showing to solve disonanse) > Which exact things are "impossible" Move from objects to collection some object like on movie. Note that if copied from blender to blender then I not saw the cube in objects but was on vieport and the Blender file. It's looks like some "refresh" issue around tree lists. Can be related with https://developer.blender.org/T89288 I'm not sure about the situation here. In case can touch problem around "file written by newer blender binary expect loss of data" when working in 2 version of blender, eg. 2.93 and 3.0 also coping objects between can do for user problems? Maybe I should not do this more..

Philipp Oeser commented

2021-09-02 11:13:25 +02:00

I'm not using more 2.92.0 and don't see this effect on 2.93, 3.0alpha

hm, OK

but here is other issue where moving object in Outliner Scene not moving cube but like duplicate.

Dont get it, this is all totally expected, an object can be in more than one collection (this does not mean it is duplicated)

Move from objects to collection some object like on movie. Note that if copied from blender to blender then I not saw the cube in objects but was on vieport and the Blender file. It's looks like some "refresh" issue around tree lists.

Hm, we still dont have reliable reproduction steps for this (or are you saying this is not happening with 2.93 anymore?)

> I'm not using more 2.92.0 and don't see this effect on 2.93, 3.0alpha hm, OK > but here is other issue where moving object in Outliner Scene not moving cube but like duplicate. Dont get it, this is all totally expected, an object can be in more than one collection (this does not mean it is duplicated) > Move from objects to collection some object like on movie. Note that if copied from blender to blender then I not saw the cube in objects but was on vieport and the Blender file. It's looks like some "refresh" issue around tree lists. Hm, we still dont have reliable reproduction steps for this (or are you saying this is not happening with 2.93 anymore?)

ManBlender commented

2021-09-02 13:36:05 +02:00

Dont get it, this is all totally expected, an object can be in more than one collection (this does not mean it is duplicated)

Take attention for:
Collection 1 > Cube > Circle

I adding Collection 1 - and no circle
I adding Collection 2 - and circle exist

copy_test_MB.blend

Movie with operations:
https://recordit.co/osqStqWJtQ

File after copy operations
copy_test_MB_after copy.blend

Dont get it, this is all totally expected,

How user can recognize that is duplicated and related and duplicated as copy?? What if this movements on Layer View and Blender File are done on object that are parents for something. Like example.

Also stooped using 2.93 after some addons are upgraded and working on B3.0 but here still meeting some issues around that I not understanding. Here is pretty visible.. that circle exist but we not seeing this, only if clicking object on viewport is visible.
Then object like circle under parent if don't have PT_Filter option to show/hide.. it's look like outside.. not in instance or something.

> Dont get it, this is all totally expected, an object can be in more than one collection (this does not mean it is duplicated) Take attention for: Collection 1 > Cube > Circle I adding Collection 1 - and no circle I adding Collection 2 - and circle exist ![screen_copy problem.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F10362984/screen_copy_problem.png) [copy_test_MB.blend](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F10362986/copy_test_MB.blend) Movie with operations: https://recordit.co/osqStqWJtQ File after copy operations [copy_test_MB_after copy.blend](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F10363016/copy_test_MB_after_copy.blend) > Dont get it, this is all totally expected, How user can recognize that is duplicated and related and duplicated as copy?? What if this movements on Layer View and Blender File are done on object that are parents for something. Like example. Also stooped using 2.93 after some addons are upgraded and working on B3.0 but here still meeting some issues around that I not understanding. Here is pretty visible.. that circle exist but we not seeing this, only if clicking object on viewport is visible. Then object like circle under parent if don't have PT_Filter option to show/hide.. it's look like outside.. not in instance or something.

Philipp Oeser commented

2021-09-02 14:19:19 +02:00

that circle exist but we not seeing this, only if clicking object on viewport is visible.

This is indeed a bug (it only happens for meshes without faces), but this has been reported before, see #86732 (Instanced wire objects are hidden in solid mode instead wire appearance)

> that circle exist but we not seeing this, only if clicking object on viewport is visible. This is indeed a bug (it only happens for meshes without faces), but this has been reported before, see #86732 (Instanced wire objects are hidden in solid mode instead wire appearance)

Philipp Oeser commented

2021-09-02 14:29:56 +02:00

Then object like circle under parent if don't have PT_Filter option to show/hide.. it's look like outside.. not in instance or something.

If an object is a child of an object (but not part of that collection), it indeed will not be part of an instance of that collection, see
This is what is somewhat communicated by "greying out" children.

#88724.blend

How user can recognize that is duplicated and related and duplicated as copy?? What if this movements on Layer View and Blender File are done on object that are parents for something.

Sorry, might be a languange barrier, but still dont understand what the problem is, can you try to explain one more time?

> Then object like circle under parent if don't have PT_Filter option to show/hide.. it's look like outside.. not in instance or something. If an object is a child of an object (but not part of that collection), it indeed will not be part of an **instance** of that collection, see This is what is somewhat communicated by "greying out" children. [#88724.blend](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F10363166/T88724.blend) > How user can recognize that is duplicated and related and duplicated as copy?? What if this movements on Layer View and Blender File are done on object that are parents for something. Sorry, might be a languange barrier, but still dont understand what the problem is, can you try to explain one more time?

Philipp Oeser commented

2021-09-02 15:10:02 +02:00

Was checking the video again and there is indeed on e other thing that goes wrong here (think this is a bug):

You are pasting an instance of Collection 1 into Collection 1 itself.
This creates a recursion.
This is usually not allowed (dragging and dropping the instance is already forbidden, there is a check in collection_object_add)
I think this has been reported before as well, let me find the duplicate...

Also note that there are still other related issues (please check these as well if you are affected by any of these):
#69393 (Add smart behavior (linking/instanciation) when pasting a collection in the Outliner or the 3DView)
#76246 ("Paste Objects" doesn't copy source objects' collection heirarchy)
#84953 (Outliner: wrong tooltip for moving collections)

Was checking the video again and there is indeed on e other thing that goes wrong here (think this is a bug): You are pasting an instance of `Collection 1` into `Collection 1` itself. This creates a recursion. This is usually not allowed (dragging and dropping the instance is already forbidden, there is a check in `collection_object_add`) I think this has been reported before as well, let me find the duplicate... Also note that there are still other related issues (please check these as well if you are affected by any of these): #69393 (Add smart behavior (linking/instanciation) when pasting a collection in the Outliner or the 3DView) #76246 ("Paste Objects" doesn't copy source objects' collection heirarchy) #84953 (Outliner: wrong tooltip for moving collections)

Philipp Oeser commented

2021-09-02 15:57:17 +02:00

In #88724#1215174, @lichtwerk wrote:
Was checking the video again and there is indeed on e other thing that goes wrong here (think this is a bug):

You are pasting an instance of Collection 1 into Collection 1 itself.
This creates a recursion.
This is usually not allowed (dragging and dropping the instance is already forbidden, there is a check in collection_object_add)

Created a separate report for this, see #91128 (You can copy-paste a collection instance into its source collection (creating recursion))

> In #88724#1215174, @lichtwerk wrote: > Was checking the video again and there is indeed on e other thing that goes wrong here (think this is a bug): > > You are pasting an instance of `Collection 1` into `Collection 1` itself. > This creates a recursion. > This is usually not allowed (dragging and dropping the instance is already forbidden, there is a check in `collection_object_add`) Created a separate report for this, see #91128 (You can copy-paste a collection instance into its source collection (creating recursion))

ManBlender commented

2021-09-02 16:31:26 +02:00

How user can recognize that is duplicated and related and duplicated as copy?? What if this movements on Layer View and Blender File are done on object that are parents for something.

Sorry, might be a languange barrier, but still dont understand what the problem is, can you try to explain one more time?

I' asking about difference for this objects as alternative way to do this by ALT+D or SHIFT+D but as result of operations by Layer and Blener FIle

There is once that I not meet last time, the "blocking move" objects. But maybe not working to much with blender to observe this.

But maybe this is the answer how I created some collections that are bugged due recursion maybe. And due that many object, collections in project I don't see the problem but exist inside.. This need some depth review on project.

> >> How user can recognize that is duplicated and related and duplicated as copy?? What if this movements on Layer View and Blender File are done on object that are parents for something. > Sorry, might be a languange barrier, but still dont understand what the problem is, can you try to explain one more time? I' asking about difference for this objects as alternative way to do this by ALT+D or SHIFT+D but as result of operations by Layer and Blener FIle There is once that I not meet last time, the "blocking move" objects. But maybe not working to much with blender to observe this. But maybe this is the answer how I created some collections that are bugged due recursion maybe. And due that many object, collections in project I don't see the problem but exist inside.. This need some depth review on project.

Philipp Oeser commented

2021-09-03 09:02:38 +02:00

Changed status from 'Needs User Info' to: 'Archived'

Philipp Oeser closed this issue

2021-09-03 09:02:38 +02:00

Philipp Oeser commented

2021-09-03 09:02:38 +02:00

I' asking about difference for this objects as alternative way to do this by ALT+D or SHIFT+D but as result of operations by Layer and Blener FIle

If you copy objects (ALT+D or SHIFT+D) you are creating new objects (either with the same object data or duplicated object data)
If you copy instances, ALT+D or SHIFT+D does not matter (both create an new objects instancing the same collection -- in a way this is an alternative to ALT+D but with a whole collection as data so to speak)
if you move/link objects to collections, they might appear multiple times in the Outliner, but these are all the same objects, nothing is duplicated at all

Please also refer to https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/dev/scene_layout/collections/introduction.html

At this point I think there is no real bug here (besides the ones that have already been reported).
If you find another specific issue, please open a new report for this.
Thx again reporting, but will close now.

> I' asking about difference for this objects as alternative way to do this by ALT+D or SHIFT+D but as result of operations by Layer and Blener FIle - If you copy objects (ALT+D or SHIFT+D) you are creating new objects (either with the same object data or duplicated object data) - If you copy instances, ALT+D or SHIFT+D does not matter (both create an new objects instancing the same collection -- in a way this is an alternative to ALT+D but with a whole collection as data so to speak) - if you move/link objects to collections, they might appear multiple times in the Outliner, but these are all the same objects, nothing is duplicated at all Please also refer to https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/dev/scene_layout/collections/introduction.html At this point I think there is no real bug here (besides the ones that have already been reported). If you find another specific issue, please open a new report for this. Thx again reporting, but will close now.

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Copy objects - bad usage (impossible to move, cut, etc. other bugs) #88724