Rigify - new setup for connected neck & spine (Bug or a Feature?) #91474

New Issue

Todor Nikolov · 2021-09-17T09:10:39+02:00

Todor Nikolov commented

2021-09-17 09:10:39 +02:00

System Information
Operating system: Windows-10-10.0.19041-SP0 64 Bits
Graphics card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 6GB/PCIe/SSE2 NVIDIA Corporation 4.5.0 NVIDIA 471.68

Blender Version
New behavior: version: 2.90+
Old behaviour: 2.83-

Short description of error
There is a difference in the way connected head + spine behave before and after 2.90. Here it is:

I can see this as a feature but the old behaviour also made sense. It would be nice to have it verified by someone who knows what's going on like @angavrilov or @icappiello

Exact steps for others to reproduce the error
Create a Basic Human meta rig and generate it in 2.90+
Create a Basic Human meta rig and generate it in 2.83 or earlier
Move "tweak_spine.004" around and notice the difference between the two versions.

**System Information** Operating system: Windows-10-10.0.19041-SP0 64 Bits Graphics card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 6GB/PCIe/SSE2 NVIDIA Corporation 4.5.0 NVIDIA 471.68 **Blender Version** New behavior: version: 2.90+ Old behaviour: 2.83- **Short description of error** There is a difference in the way **connected** head + spine behave before and after 2.90. Here it is: ![blnder_neck.gif](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F10441310/blnder_neck.gif) I can see this as a feature but the old behaviour also made sense. It would be nice to have it verified by someone who knows what's going on like @angavrilov or @icappiello **Exact steps for others to reproduce the error** Create a Basic Human meta rig and generate it in 2.90+ Create a Basic Human meta rig and generate it in 2.83 or earlier Move "tweak_spine.004" around and notice the difference between the two versions.

Todor Nikolov commented

2021-09-17 09:10:39 +02:00

Added subscriber: @TodorNikolov

Todor Nikolov commented

2021-09-17 09:13:58 +02:00

Added subscribers: @icappiello, @angavrilov

Ivan Cappiello commented

2021-09-17 09:49:40 +02:00

@TodorNikolov I believe that what was happening in 2.83 is worst compared to what happens in 2.90. I always found a bit limiting the usage of the neck tweak because of this propagated scale behavior. Can't tell though if this was a designed change or just a consequence of code changes. If you ask me, since now we have the unconnected option for the neck, I'd go for having the old 2.83 behavior when connected is on and the new 2.90 result when connected option is off (which I believe would happen by default).
@angavrilov what do you think?

@TodorNikolov I believe that what was happening in 2.83 is worst compared to what happens in 2.90. I always found a bit limiting the usage of the neck tweak because of this propagated scale behavior. Can't tell though if this was a designed change or just a consequence of code changes. If you ask me, since now we have the unconnected option for the neck, I'd go for having the old 2.83 behavior when connected is on and the new 2.90 result when connected option is off (which I believe would happen by default). @angavrilov what do you think?

Omar Emara commented

2022-03-08 15:45:09 +01:00

Added subscribers: @Mets, @OmarEmaraDev

Omar Emara commented

2022-03-08 15:45:09 +01:00

Changed status from 'Needs Triage' to: 'Needs Developer To Reproduce'

Omar Emara commented

2022-03-08 15:45:09 +01:00

Looks related to the change in ba2521b7ed. Is that the case @Mets @angavrilov?

Looks related to the change in ba2521b7ed. Is that the case @Mets @angavrilov?

Demeter Dzadik commented

2022-03-09 12:52:10 +01:00

Changed status from 'Needs Developer To Reproduce' to: 'Archived'

Demeter Dzadik closed this issue

2022-03-09 12:52:10 +01:00

Demeter Dzadik commented

2022-03-09 12:52:10 +01:00

Yep, it was an intentional change because the old behaviour seemed like it would be less often desired than the new one; propagating scale along the arms when squashing the upper body (or in the original case, when translating the neck FK), makes further posing on those arms annoying due to the way skewing affects transform operations.

There are arguments on both sides, so the old behaviour can still be achieved by parenting shoulder.L/R to DEF-spine.003 instead of ORG-spine.003. This is easiest done by going on the shoulder metarig bones, enabling "Constraint Relinking" and then simply entering "DEF" in the "Parent" input box. Tooltip explains why this works.

Yep, it was an intentional change because the old behaviour seemed like it would be less often desired than the new one; propagating scale along the arms when squashing the upper body (or in the original case, when translating the neck FK), makes further posing on those arms annoying due to the way skewing affects transform operations. There are arguments on both sides, so the old behaviour can still be achieved by parenting `shoulder.L/R` to `DEF-spine.003` instead of `ORG-spine.003`. This is easiest done by going on the shoulder metarig bones, enabling "Constraint Relinking" and then simply entering "DEF" in the "Parent" input box. Tooltip explains why this works.

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Rigify - new setup for connected neck & spine (Bug or a Feature?) #91474