Some Geometry Nodes Have Wrong Simplified Chinese Translation #93342

New Issue

Zijun Zhou · 2021-11-24T01:32:05+01:00

Zijun Zhou commented

2021-11-24 01:32:05 +01:00

System Information
Operating system: Windows-10-10.0.19042-SP0 64 Bits
Graphics card: NVIDIA GeForce MX130/PCIe/SSE2 NVIDIA Corporation 4.5.0 NVIDIA 496.76

Blender Version
Broken: version: 3.0.0 Beta, branch: master, commit date: 2021-11-22 23:55, hash: f749506163
Worked: none

Short description of error
Some Chinese Translation for some nodes is not following the naming design talked about here:
https://devtalk.blender.org/t/2021-09-20-2021-9-24-geometry-nodes-sub-module-meetings/20594
Some may argue that Chinese translation doesn't need to follow English guidelines but I believe as long as following the guidelines don't break Chinese grammar, we should follow it.

Exact steps for others to reproduce the error
Open the Geometry Nodes workspace, and add these three nodes: Distribute Points on Faces, Instance on Points, Resample Curve.

Distribute Points on Faces

This one is currently being translated to be 在表面上分布点, which is putting "On Surfaces" first before the verb, there are two things that need fixing here.
(1). It has been made clear that we go with "Faces" not "Surfaces" in the devtalk post above. So it should be 面 not 表面
(2). We should put it verb first since "verb first" doesn't break the Chinese grammar and is the official guideline, as long as it doesn't break the Chinese grammar we should stick to it.
So I believe it should be "分布点于面上" (the 于 here can be 于 or 到 or 在, I don't have much opinion over this.)
Instance on Points

This one is probably the worst one. The entire reason for the node to start with the word "instance" is because the "instance" here is a verb, but the Chinese translation mistakes it as a noun, so it translated it as 点上的实例, which kind of means "The instances that are on the points". This is completely missing the original meaning of the name.
So I believe it should be "实例化于点上" (the 于 here can be 于 or 到 or 在, I don't have much opinion over this.)
Resample Curve

This one is translated as 曲线重采样 which is kind of like "Curve Resample", this should be flipped and be "重采样曲线", again, it doesn't break the Chinese grammar so we should stick to the guideline.
Field

Field is being translated as 字段. which is the "Field" in computer science (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_(computer_science) ). I don't think this is where the name Field comes from. From the original proposal:
https://devtalk.blender.org/t/fields-and-anonymous-attributes-proposal/19450

Note, this definition of a field is different from definitions in mathematics and physics. While the term is inspired by the fields used in physics, they can depend on more than just space and time in this proposal.

It is said that the name Field was inspired by the Fields of physics. So it would make more sense to call it 场, which is what the Fields in Physics are translated as.

**System Information** Operating system: Windows-10-10.0.19042-SP0 64 Bits Graphics card: NVIDIA GeForce MX130/PCIe/SSE2 NVIDIA Corporation 4.5.0 NVIDIA 496.76 **Blender Version** Broken: version: 3.0.0 Beta, branch: master, commit date: 2021-11-22 23:55, hash: `f749506163` Worked: none **Short description of error** Some Chinese Translation for some nodes is not following the naming design talked about here: https://devtalk.blender.org/t/2021-09-20-2021-9-24-geometry-nodes-sub-module-meetings/20594 Some may argue that Chinese translation doesn't need to follow English guidelines but I believe as long as following the guidelines don't break Chinese grammar, we should follow it. **Exact steps for others to reproduce the error** Open the Geometry Nodes workspace, and add these three nodes: Distribute Points on Faces, Instance on Points, Resample Curve. 1. Distribute Points on Faces ![image.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F11936729/image.png) This one is currently being translated to be 在表面上分布点, which is putting "On Surfaces" first before the verb, there are two things that need fixing here. (1). It has been made clear that we go with "Faces" not "Surfaces" in the devtalk post above. So it should be 面 not 表面 (2). We should put it verb first since "verb first" doesn't break the Chinese grammar and is the official guideline, as long as it doesn't break the Chinese grammar we should stick to it. So I believe it should be "分布点于面上" (the 于 here can be 于 or 到 or 在, I don't have much opinion over this.) 2. Instance on Points ![image.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F11936743/image.png) This one is probably the worst one. The entire reason for the node to start with the word "instance" is because **the "instance" here is a verb**, but the Chinese translation mistakes it as a noun, so it translated it as 点上的实例, which kind of means "The instances that are on the points". This is completely missing the original meaning of the name. So I believe it should be "实例化于点上" (the 于 here can be 于 or 到 or 在, I don't have much opinion over this.) 3. Resample Curve ![image.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F11936836/image.png) This one is translated as 曲线重采样 which is kind of like "Curve Resample", this should be flipped and be "重采样曲线", again, it doesn't break the Chinese grammar so we should stick to the guideline. 4. Field ![image.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F11938584/image.png) Field is being translated as 字段. which is the "Field" in computer science (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_(computer_science) ). I don't think this is where the name Field comes from. From the original proposal: https://devtalk.blender.org/t/fields-and-anonymous-attributes-proposal/19450 > Note, this definition of a field is different from definitions in mathematics and physics. While the term is inspired by the fields used in physics, they can depend on more than just space and time in this proposal. It is said that the name Field was inspired by the Fields of physics. So it would make more sense to call it 场, which is what the Fields in Physics are translated as.

Zijun Zhou commented

2021-11-24 01:32:05 +01:00

Added subscriber: @Eary

Zijun Zhou commented

2021-11-25 04:49:38 +01:00

Any hope this being fixed before 3.0 releases? This is improtant, Geometry Nodes just has a completely new system and users are going to understand the system with the nodes' names. With the names like "The Instances that are on the Points" for Instance on Points node in the official 3.0 release is just horrible and will cause a lot of misunderstanding and confusion.

Note that for users in the region, the translation is the name of node itself, they would not bother to check what the original English name is. The wrong translation would be taken as is and will be problematic.

Any hope this being fixed before 3.0 releases? This is improtant, Geometry Nodes just has a completely new system and users are going to understand the system with the nodes' names. With the names like "The Instances that are on the Points" for `Instance on Points` node in the official 3.0 release is just horrible and will cause a lot of misunderstanding and confusion. Note that for users in the region, the translation **is** the name of node itself, they would not bother to check what the original English name is. The wrong translation would be taken as is and will be problematic.

Zijun Zhou commented

2021-11-26 09:51:25 +01:00

I don't understand why there is still no response. People are going to make tutorials with the wrong name on( this has already happened, unfortunately) , people are going to refer to it with the wrong name, and eventually a culture of referring to the wrong name would develop.

The tramslation is the name itself. So this report should be considered the same priority as if the title was "The Names of the Nodes are Wrong", which should have been "High", right now it's not even comfirmed.

3.0 RC just came out, please don't let these translation errors like "the instances that are on the points" for Instance on Point get into the release please.

I don't understand why there is still no response. People are going to make tutorials with the wrong name on( this has already happened, unfortunately) , people are going to refer to it with the wrong name, and eventually a culture of referring to the wrong name would develop. The tramslation **is** the name itself. So this report should be considered the same priority as if the title was "The Names of the Nodes are Wrong", which should have been "**High**", right now it's not even comfirmed. 3.0 RC just came out, please don't let these translation errors like "the instances that are on the points" for `Instance on Point` get into the release please.

xueke pei commented

2021-11-27 15:56:08 +01:00

Added subscriber: @xuekepei

zdy was assigned by xueke pei

2021-11-27 15:56:08 +01:00

xueke pei commented

2021-11-27 15:56:08 +01:00

Chinese translation team not use d.b.o frequently. we use qq group and github pr instead for communicate with chinese people.
qq group id: 620831153

Chinese translation team not use d.b.o frequently. we use qq group and github pr instead for communicate with chinese people. qq group id: 620831153

xueke pei commented

2021-11-27 15:56:40 +01:00

Changed status from 'Needs Triage' to: 'Confirmed'

zdy commented

2021-11-27 16:27:46 +01:00

@Eary Sorry for reply late. Thank you for you feedbacks. All the improper items will be fixed in next week's commit.
By the way, we have a qq group(id: 620831153) for discussion on this. Hope you can join us to improve Chinese localization.

@Eary Sorry for reply late. Thank you for you feedbacks. All the improper items will be fixed in next week's commit. By the way, we have a qq group(id: 620831153) for discussion on this. Hope you can join us to improve Chinese localization.

Zijun Zhou commented

2021-11-27 21:14:40 +01:00

Sorry I don't have a QQ account, registering for one is kind of a hassle. I tried to register for one after reading your reply, I was trying to do it on the web, then it told me for some reason I cannot do it on the web and I need to do it on my phone with the APP. I downloaded the APP and it asked me to find another person with QQ for more than half a year to scan a QR code for me.... No thank you, I don't have QQ, sorry.

I did read from another person's screenshot of the chat that you were confused about the concept of field. So first of all Field is definitely not data from a database. In fact they are not data at all. They are functions 函数, which is where the "function flow" term 函数流 came from.

This, for example, is kind of like f(position) = position + (1, 1, 1) , like f(x) = x +1
The actual data of position is unknown here, it is like an unknown variable "x" in a function.

When it's plugged in to nodes that have proper "Geometry" input socket on the left side, the "X" is being "substituted" by the actual position data of the geometry (this process is typically called "evaluating the field"), this is important because the nodes that actually have data, like the Set Position node having the green geometry input on the left side, they are called "Data Flow" 数据流, which is different from Function Flow fields that are basically just functions.

The fact that those connections become dashed is because the design is trying to convey that fields are not data, so function flow 函数流 lines are dashed to indicate that there is no data.

As for why it should be 场, I believe I have stated my reasoning very clearly, this is according to the design's proposal article:
https://devtalk.blender.org/t/fields-and-anonymous-attributes-proposal/19450

Note, this definition of a field is different from definitions in mathematics and physics. While the term is inspired by the fields used in physics, they can depend on more than just space and time in this proposal.

This was inspired by Fields in physics. It's why 场 is most suitable.

If you feel 场 sounds a bit strange in the context, it's natural, the English name Field has also been doubted for the same reason and they were once trying to find a better name for the concept:
Please check this task out: #91050
But they eventually still went with Field 场 because people just like that name (at least I do).
And in that task it is clearly stated the original reason for the name "Field" was that

I used the term field in the proposal because when I originally thought about it, the generated functions would only depend on position most of of the time

Does it make sense now that it should be 场? @nge
If there are still things unclear please ask me.

Sorry I don't have a QQ account, registering for one is kind of a hassle. I tried to register for one after reading your reply, I was trying to do it on the web, then it told me for some reason I cannot do it on the web and I need to do it on my phone with the APP. I downloaded the APP and it asked me to find another person with QQ for more than half a year to scan a QR code for me.... No thank you, I don't have QQ, sorry. I did read from another person's screenshot of the chat that you were confused about the concept of field. So first of all Field is definitely not data from a database. In fact they are not data at all. They are functions 函数, which is where the "function flow" term 函数流 came from. ![image.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F12477232/image.png) This, for example, is kind of like f(position) = position + (1, 1, 1) , like f(x) = x +1 The actual data of position is unknown here, it is like an unknown variable "x" in a function. ![image.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F12477590/image.png) When it's plugged in to nodes that have proper "Geometry" input socket on the left side, the "X" is being "substituted" by the actual position data of the geometry (this process is typically called "evaluating the field"), this is important because the nodes that actually have data, like the `Set Position` node having the green geometry input on the left side, they are called "Data Flow" 数据流, which is different from Function Flow fields that are basically just functions. The fact that those connections become dashed is because the design is trying to convey that fields are not data, so function flow 函数流 lines are dashed to indicate that there is no data. As for why it should be 场, I believe I have stated my reasoning very clearly, this is according to the design's proposal article: https://devtalk.blender.org/t/fields-and-anonymous-attributes-proposal/19450 > Note, this definition of a field is different from definitions in mathematics and physics. While the term is inspired by the fields used in physics, they can depend on more than just space and time in this proposal. This was inspired by Fields in physics. It's why 场 is most suitable. If you feel 场 sounds a bit strange in the context, it's natural, the English name Field has also been doubted for the same reason and they were once trying to find a better name for the concept: Please check this task out: #91050 But they eventually still went with Field 场 because people just like that name (at least I do). And in that task it is clearly stated the original reason for the name "Field" was that >I used the term field in the proposal because when I originally thought about it, the generated functions would only depend on position most of of the time Does it make sense now that it should be 场? @nge If there are still things unclear please ask me.

Zijun Zhou commented

2021-11-28 06:28:02 +01:00

I just got the message that you guys decided to translate Field as 域 which is typically the translation for domain. This is not correct. I already said my reasoning, it should be 场.

Look at this sentense below:

"This position Field will be evaluated in the Point domain."

If you go with Field => 域, then how are you planning to say this sentense in Chinese? “位置的域会在点的域里解算求值”？

No, it should be 场,"位置的场会在点的域里求值解算"

The fact that "domain" is present in Geometry Nodes and it is typically translated to 域, means that Field just cannot be translated to that.

It should be 场, as Jacques was originally inspired by fields in physics, and fields in physics is translated as 场.

I don't understand which part I did not explain clear enough, if you have questions please ask me.

P.S. Just letting you know that similar words were actually used by the developers:

I just got the message that you guys decided to translate Field as 域 which is typically the translation for domain. This is not correct. I already said my reasoning, it should be 场. Look at this sentense below: "This position Field will be evaluated in the Point domain." If you go with Field => 域, then how are you planning to say this sentense in Chinese? “位置的域会在点的域里解算求值”？ No, it should be 场,"位置的场会在点的域里求值解算" The fact that "domain" is present in Geometry Nodes and it is typically translated to 域, means that Field just cannot be translated to that. It should be 场, as Jacques was originally inspired by fields in physics, and fields in physics is translated as 场. I don't understand which part I did not explain clear enough, if you have questions please ask me. P.S. Just letting you know that similar words were actually used by the developers: ![image.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F12535390/image.png)

xueke pei commented

2021-11-28 08:00:05 +01:00

maybe translate field as "范围" can make sense. or use the origin mean in dictionary "领域"
we need to explain to artists know what this name exact means in their knowledge system.
if we choose field as "force field" meaning, artists will misunderstanding how the node be used, especially "string field" "float field" in node editor.
and
"This position Field will be evaluated in the Point domain." ==> 位置范围将在点域中进行估值

maybe translate field as "范围" can make sense. or use the origin mean in dictionary "领域" we need to explain to artists know what this name exact means in their knowledge system. if we choose field as "force field" meaning, artists will misunderstanding how the node be used, especially "string field" "float field" in node editor. and "This position Field will be evaluated in the Point domain." ==> 位置范围将在点域中进行估值

Zijun Zhou commented

2021-11-28 08:04:10 +01:00

No Field is not 范围 which typically means "range".

The name field came from field in physics, this interpretation has been comfirmed by Jacques. So it should be 场

I don't understand why this is still not clear enough

In #93342#1261135, @xuekepei wrote:
we need to explain to artists know what this name exact means in their knowledge system.

This is not our job, see below

In #93342#1261135, @xuekepei wrote:
if we choose field as "force field" meaning, artists will misunderstanding how the node be used, especially "string field" "float field" in node editor.

The same thing happens in English, so it should not be a translator problem. More over, force fields are 力场, while fields are just 场

string field is actually being intensionally hidden from the UI by the developers for now, but in the future just 字符场 should be enough, same with float fields as 浮点场. Fields in English has the same situation, solving this situation is not our job here.

No Field is not 范围 which typically means "range". ![image.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F12535593/image.png) ![image.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F12535596/image.png) The name field came from field in physics, this interpretation has been comfirmed by Jacques. So it should be 场 I don't understand why this is still not clear enough > In #93342#1261135, @xuekepei wrote: > we need to explain to artists know what this name exact means in their knowledge system. This is not our job, see below > In #93342#1261135, @xuekepei wrote: > if we choose field as "force field" meaning, artists will misunderstanding how the node be used, especially "string field" "float field" in node editor. The same thing happens in English, so it should not be a translator problem. More over, force fields are 力场, while fields are just 场 string field is actually being intensionally hidden from the UI by the developers for now, but in the future just 字符场 should be enough, same with float fields as 浮点场. Fields in English has the same situation, solving this situation is not our job here.

xueke pei commented

2021-11-28 08:12:19 +01:00

but blender user in china almost not physicist

I don't understand why this is still not clear enough

maybe "田" can make artists in China figurative understanding this word 'field' in digital arts field.

but blender user in china almost not physicist > > I don't understand why this is still not clear enough maybe "田" can make artists in China figurative understanding this word 'field' in digital arts field.

Zijun Zhou commented

2021-11-28 08:18:13 +01:00

In #93342#1261137, @xuekepei wrote:
but blender user in china almost not physicist

I think internationally Blender users are mostly artists because the way it is designed. So still the same situation as English. not our job to solve.

In #93342#1261137, @xuekepei wrote:
maybe "田" can make artists in China figurative understanding this word 'field' in digital arts field.

田 is the field of ground where you yield food, I don't think it is appropriate here.
See this:

> In #93342#1261137, @xuekepei wrote: >but blender user in china almost not physicist I think internationally Blender users are mostly artists because the way it is designed. So still the same situation as English. not our job to solve. > In #93342#1261137, @xuekepei wrote: > maybe "田" can make artists in China figurative understanding this word 'field' in digital arts field. 田 is the field of ground where you yield food, I don't think it is appropriate here. See this: ![image.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F12535674/image.png) ![image.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F12535677/image.png)

Zijun Zhou commented

2021-11-28 08:20:57 +01:00

So basically the confusion between force field of physics sim and geo node field also exsits in English so it should not be taken as a translation problem to solve, the job is to convey the original intend of the said name.

xueke pei commented

2021-11-29 13:10:00 +01:00

Changed status from 'Confirmed' to: 'Resolved'

xueke pei closed this issue

2021-11-29 13:10:00 +01:00

xueke pei commented

2021-11-29 13:10:00 +01:00

when @nge rename fields node to correct name and commit the changed po file. I think this issue is solved.

Zijun Zhou commented

2021-11-30 10:22:09 +01:00

It took me some time to understand what the above statement means but I think it means "This task will be resolved after the commit is made", since the commit is not made yet this is technically not resolved yet, just making it clear for the record.

blender-admin commented

2021-11-30 16:32:32 +01:00

This issue was referenced by blender/blender-translations@5827

zdy commented

2021-11-30 16:34:56 +01:00

I think this has been fixed with commit rBTS5827.

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Some Geometry Nodes Have Wrong Simplified Chinese Translation #93342