Quicktime export won't open in quicktime #94274

New Issue

Andrew Hodel · 2021-12-20T17:48:03+01:00

Andrew Hodel commented

2021-12-20 17:48:03 +01:00

System Information
Operating system: macOS 12.01
Graphics card: Macbook Pro Intel - Intel Iris Plus Graphics 645 1536 MB

Blender Version
Broken: (example: 2.80, edbf15d3c0, master, 2018-11-28, as found on the splash screen)
Worked: (newest version of Blender that worked as expected)
3.0.0

Short description of error

Quicktime reports: This file isn't compatible with Quicktime Player (version 1110.4.21)

View attached image to see quicktime export options.

Exact steps for others to reproduce the error
Based on the default startup or an attached .blend file (as simple as possible).

**System Information** Operating system: macOS 12.01 Graphics card: Macbook Pro Intel - Intel Iris Plus Graphics 645 1536 MB **Blender Version** Broken: (example: 2.80, edbf15d3c044, master, 2018-11-28, as found on the splash screen) Worked: (newest version of Blender that worked as expected) 3.0.0 **Short description of error** Quicktime reports: This file isn't compatible with Quicktime Player (version 1110.4.21) View attached image to see quicktime export options.![Screen Shot 2021-12-20 at 7.46.42 PM.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F12767689/Screen_Shot_2021-12-20_at_7.46.42_PM.png) **Exact steps for others to reproduce the error** Based on the default startup or an attached .blend file (as simple as possible).

Andrew Hodel commented

2021-12-20 17:48:03 +01:00

Added subscriber: @andrewhodel

Richard Antalik commented

2021-12-21 09:20:03 +01:00

Added subscriber: @iss

Richard Antalik commented

2021-12-21 09:20:03 +01:00

Changed status from 'Needs Triage' to: 'Needs User Info'

Richard Antalik commented

2021-12-21 09:20:03 +01:00

Can you check if this happens with 2.83 LTS from https://builder.blender.org/download/daily/? There have been some development around ffmpeg in 2.9x and it would help to know if this is something that has been broken in recent development. If that doesn't work I can test if ffmpeg itself does produce usable output.

Here it works fine with "latest" quicktime 7.7.9

Can you check if this happens with **2.83 LTS** from https://builder.blender.org/download/daily/? There have been some development around ffmpeg in 2.9x and it would help to know if this is something that has been broken in recent development. If that doesn't work I can test if ffmpeg itself does produce usable output. Here it works fine with "latest" quicktime 7.7.9

Andrew Hodel commented

2021-12-21 11:44:04 +01:00

No, I have provided a report regarding an issue with a broken stable version.

Quicktime is the latest version, I don't know where you get your version numbers (for Quicktime) from as this is for MacOS.

ffmpeg must be bundled with Blender in the MacOS builds because I have not installed it. I am assuming you are talking about the bundling of ffmpeg and Blender in 2.9x (of Blender). Sorry, I have already been through the dependency hell story and believe in investment to create working libraries.

No, I have provided a report regarding an issue with a broken stable version. Quicktime is the latest version, I don't know where you get your version numbers (for Quicktime) from as this is for MacOS. ffmpeg must be bundled with Blender in the MacOS builds because I have not installed it. I am assuming you are talking about the bundling of ffmpeg and Blender in 2.9x (of Blender). Sorry, I have already been through the dependency hell story and believe in investment to create working libraries.

Yevgeny Makarov commented

2021-12-21 12:34:12 +01:00

Added subscriber: @jenkm

Yevgeny Makarov commented

2021-12-21 12:34:12 +01:00

Changed status from 'Needs User Info' to: 'Needs Triage'

Yevgeny Makarov commented

2021-12-21 12:34:12 +01:00

Blender 2.79b and 2.83.9 also produce a file that is not playable in macOS 11.6.
Quicktime 7.7.9 this seems to be the latest Windows version.

Blender 2.79b and 2.83.9 also produce a file that is not playable in macOS 11.6. Quicktime 7.7.9 this seems to be the latest Windows version.

Richard Antalik commented

2021-12-22 04:46:57 +01:00

Changed status from 'Needs Triage' to: 'Needs User Info'

Richard Antalik commented

2021-12-22 04:46:57 +01:00

Thanks for information.

Can you check if this video can be opened in quicktime?
output.mov

Thanks for information. Can you check if this video can be opened in quicktime? [output.mov](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F12771443/output.mov)

Yevgeny Makarov commented

2021-12-22 11:01:34 +01:00

{F12771443, layout=link}

Not playable in: QuickTime, TV, Safari, Opera
But it is played in: iMovie

I didn't mean to say that the bug is in Blender or ffmpeg, the file itself may be correct.

{[F12771443](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F12771443/output.mov), layout=link} Not playable in: QuickTime, TV, Safari, Opera But it is played in: iMovie I didn't mean to say that the bug is in Blender or ffmpeg, the file itself may be correct.

Richard Antalik commented

2021-12-23 01:39:00 +01:00

Thanks for checking. The file was encoded with ffmpeg -i in.mp4 -codec copy -c:v qtrle output.mov so QT rle codec should be initialized with default parameters, which is what Blender should do as well.

Since both do not work, this is either bug in ffmpeg, or their defaults are not suitable for your configuration. If you can identify which codec parameter must be changed I can add such parameter to our defaults. I can't identify it myself, because I don't have access to apple SW/HW.

Thanks for checking. The file was encoded with `ffmpeg -i in.mp4 -codec copy -c:v qtrle output.mov` so QT rle codec should be initialized with default parameters, which is what Blender should do as well. Since both do not work, this is either bug in ffmpeg, or their defaults are not suitable for your configuration. If you can identify which codec parameter must be changed I can add such parameter to our defaults. I can't identify it myself, because I don't have access to apple SW/HW.

Andrew Hodel commented

2021-12-23 07:04:16 +01:00

Amazon AWS leases ec2 instances that are Apple hardware and software that can be leased by the hour.

Yevgeny Makarov commented

2021-12-25 20:58:03 +01:00

I would say that QuickTime 10 does not support Animation (QuickTime RLE) codec. It's kind of legacy QuickTime 7 format.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202884

QuickTime Player uses Apple ProRes to convert legacy formats used in video workflows, such as those encoded with the Animation codec. It uses H.264 to convert other older or third-party media formats.

And as it's playable in iMovie, there is no bug.

I would say that QuickTime 10 does not support Animation (QuickTime RLE) codec. It's kind of legacy QuickTime 7 format. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202884 > QuickTime Player uses Apple ProRes to convert legacy formats used in video workflows, such as those encoded with **the Animation codec**. It uses H.264 to convert other older or third-party media formats. And as it's playable in iMovie, there is no bug.

Andrew Hodel commented

2021-12-26 09:11:06 +01:00

The bug is simple, the UI says an alpha channel is supported and it is not.

The latest quicktime on mac os plays videos with alpha channels.

Premiere, final cut pro all export videos that play in quicktime on the latest macos with alpha channels.

There is no other codec selectable in blender with an alpha channel. It’s absurd to think rendering a video without this is reasonable. It is more unreasonable to need to recreate this by generating huge pngs then merging them into a video manually.

The bug is simple, the UI says an alpha channel is supported and it is not. The latest quicktime on mac os plays videos with alpha channels. Premiere, final cut pro all export videos that play in quicktime on the latest macos with alpha channels. There is no other codec selectable in blender with an alpha channel. It’s absurd to think rendering a video without this is reasonable. It is more unreasonable to need to recreate this by generating huge pngs then merging them into a video manually.

Andrew Hodel commented

2021-12-26 09:50:25 +01:00

It isn’t a big deal if you don’t know how or want to do all the work to fix the problem. But you cannot lie in the user interface and have the default video player of hundreds of millions of computers fail to work and say there is no bug.

It is an important feature of blender to export valid video with an alpha channel, it isn’t reasonable to say this isn’t a blender bug.

I realize it is complicated work to understand video export to a compressed format that support an alpha channel but it is not acceptable to say there is no bug only because you cannot immediately find someone who knows how.

It isn’t a big deal if you don’t know how or want to do all the work to fix the problem. But you cannot lie in the user interface and have the default video player of hundreds of millions of computers fail to work and say there is no bug. It is an important feature of blender to export valid video with an alpha channel, it isn’t reasonable to say this isn’t a blender bug. I realize it is complicated work to understand video export to a compressed format that support an alpha channel but it is not acceptable to say there is no bug only because you cannot immediately find someone who knows how.

Richard Antalik commented

2021-12-27 12:25:39 +01:00

@andrewhodel I am not sure if I understand this - Do you mean, that when you render QT RLE video without alpha channel it can be opened in quicktime? If you can provide sample QT RLE file that does open in quicktime, I can compare codec settings and investigate possible solution, but I did not assume you have access to such files.

Even if this is legacy codec I am fine with improving compatibility by tweaking some settings, but since these files are playable in many applications but Quicktime, I wouldn't be surprised if this is not bug in Blender or FFmpeg.

There are other codecs with alpha channel available too: WEBM/VP9, PNG, HuffYUV and FFV1.

@andrewhodel I am not sure if I understand this - Do you mean, that when you render QT RLE video without alpha channel it can be opened in quicktime? If you can provide sample QT RLE file that does open in quicktime, I can compare codec settings and investigate possible solution, but I did not assume you have access to such files. Even if this is legacy codec I am fine with improving compatibility by tweaking some settings, but since these files are playable in many applications but Quicktime, I wouldn't be surprised if this is not bug in Blender or FFmpeg. There are other codecs with alpha channel available too: WEBM/VP9, PNG, HuffYUV and FFV1.

Andrew Hodel commented

2021-12-27 12:29:13 +01:00

I showed you the render options and provided the version and platform of the latest quicktime on the latest operating system that it doesn't run on.

There's no reason to not understand it, it is very simple. You need to test things, and you didn't. You need to communicate and instead of talking at the bit level as a developer to another developer you are trying to talk to a user at the complexity of the bit level with normal words.

There's nothing more I should provide you with in regards to data, I'm not a developer of Blender.

I showed you the render options and provided the version and platform of the latest quicktime on the latest operating system that it doesn't run on. There's no reason to not understand it, it is very simple. You need to test things, and you didn't. You need to communicate and instead of talking at the bit level as a developer to another developer you are trying to talk to a user at the complexity of the bit level with normal words. There's nothing more I should provide you with in regards to data, I'm not a developer of Blender.

Yevgeny Makarov commented

2021-12-27 13:35:03 +01:00

The bug is simple, the UI says an alpha channel is supported and it is not.

It is supported.

{F12777795, layout=link}

@andrewhodel There are two options, you show QuickTime documentation that says the "QuickTime Animation" (QT RLE) codec is supported, or you provide a sample file that opens in QuickTime. Until we assume that this codec is not supported, moreover I have already provided a link where Apple says it.

> The bug is simple, the UI says an alpha channel is supported and it is not. It is supported. ![qt_rle_rgba.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F12777796/qt_rle_rgba.png) {[F12777795](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F12777795/qt_rle_rgba.mov), layout=link} *** @andrewhodel There are two options, you show QuickTime documentation that says the "QuickTime Animation" (QT RLE) codec is supported, or you provide a sample file that opens in QuickTime. Until we assume that this codec is not supported, moreover I have already provided a link where Apple says it.

Andrew Hodel commented

2021-12-27 15:58:14 +01:00

What does apple say?

You say Apple says it, what is it?

Are you saying that Apple literally says it, that Apple says alpha channels are not supported in quicktime but are in imovie or that Apple says alpha channels are supported in quicktime and are supported in imovie?

Why would Apple support an alpha channel in imovie and not in the quicktime player that is executed when using the finder and pressing spacebar, and why would apple not support an alpha channel when opening a video using their default video player instead of some huge binary that requires multiple steps to view the video?

What does apple say? You say Apple says it, what is it? Are you saying that Apple literally says it, that Apple says alpha channels are not supported in quicktime but are in imovie or that Apple says alpha channels are supported in quicktime and are supported in imovie? Why would Apple support an alpha channel in imovie and not in the quicktime player that is executed when using the finder and pressing spacebar, and why would apple not support an alpha channel when opening a video using their default video player instead of some huge binary that requires multiple steps to view the video?

Richard Antalik commented

2022-01-04 06:15:20 +01:00

Changed status from 'Needs User Info' to: 'Archived'

Richard Antalik closed this issue

2022-01-04 06:15:20 +01:00

Richard Antalik commented

2022-01-04 06:15:20 +01:00

In #94274#1278804, @andrewhodel wrote:
There's nothing more I should provide you with in regards to data, I'm not a developer of Blender.

I understand it as that you don't want to help, which is fine. I would advise to switch QT-RLE codec to one of mentioned: WEBM/VP9, PNG, HuffYUV and FFV1. I assume that these may work in quicktime and should support alpha channel.

In regards to QT-RLE it may be good to not use it as default setting because it is deprecated. @jenkm do you think this would be good idea? I can change it to h264, sounds like a safe option. Can you check if it will work?

Will close this report since this doesn't look like a bug in Blender.

> In #94274#1278804, @andrewhodel wrote: > There's nothing more I should provide you with in regards to data, I'm not a developer of Blender. I understand it as that you don't want to help, which is fine. I would advise to switch QT-RLE codec to one of mentioned: WEBM/VP9, PNG, HuffYUV and FFV1. I assume that these may work in quicktime and should support alpha channel. In regards to QT-RLE it may be good to not use it as default setting because it is deprecated. @jenkm do you think this would be good idea? I can change it to h264, sounds like a safe option. Can you check if it will work? Will close this report since this doesn't look like a bug in Blender.

Andrew Hodel commented

2022-01-04 09:17:42 +01:00

I want to help, I don’t have a pension and didn’t pay $8000 for real estate worth $1m today though.

Those codecs and container selections do not provide the option for an alpha channel in Blender.

I want to help, I don’t have a pension and didn’t pay $8000 for real estate worth $1m today though. Those codecs and container selections do not provide the option for an alpha channel in Blender.

Yevgeny Makarov commented

2022-01-04 10:18:07 +01:00

I just don't understand the assumption that QuickTime Player should support professional codecs with transparency. It's just a small default media player. And I still don't see an example of a such file that is played in QuickTime.

H264 is used in Blender by default. The QT-RLE codec produces a correct file that plays perfectly in iMovie. I don't see what else we can do here.

I just don't understand the assumption that QuickTime Player should support professional codecs with transparency. It's just a small default media player. And I still don't see an example of a such file that is played in QuickTime. H264 is used in Blender by default. The QT-RLE codec produces a correct file that plays perfectly in iMovie. I don't see what else we can do here.

Andrew Hodel commented

2022-01-04 10:26:24 +01:00

Why is an alpha channel professional?

That is insanely limiting.

You are basically blocking off everything of realtime video that is placed over video.

The idea that people with their smartphones recording a video wouldn’t put them on top of one a other in simple editing is absurd.

Before long there will be 24k video and enough resolution to select viewports with object detection by tapping two points on a screen.

Why is that professional? What is professional is the making of that. This is the same dilemma faced in product manufacturing at the engineering level of product vs factory.

Why is an alpha channel professional? That is insanely limiting. You are basically blocking off everything of realtime video that is placed over video. The idea that people with their smartphones recording a video wouldn’t put them on top of one a other in simple editing is absurd. Before long there will be 24k video and enough resolution to select viewports with object detection by tapping two points on a screen. Why is that professional? What is professional is the making of that. This is the same dilemma faced in product manufacturing at the engineering level of product vs factory.

Andrew Hodel commented

2022-01-04 13:49:18 +01:00

Do you understand why repeating this silly story is a problem, because you aren't focusing on the work while working anymore!

I don't understand why you are trying to confuse me, I'm trying to figure out some way to generate revenue with available tools and when I report a bug to improve them you give me hell about options.

Why? It's simple, it's a bug. Why was the first response not that of, we don't want to work on that because it's boring (why it's supposed to be paid development anyway).

For the justification to be, "we draw a line at professional" is absurd. It's difficult to understand and if Apple is the problem here, then why are you responding as Apple? If this is sincere, then there's no reason you shouldn't be teaching someone from the compiler as a start then have them paid to work on fixing playback of this video. It's crazy to think you need another codec to justify some insane license because you couldn't comment the simple truth in your code for the sake of someone harassing the author about it because you didn't pay them enough to live comfortably.

Responding to bug reports with loops of nonsense to frustrate is not the answer.

Do you understand why repeating this silly story is a problem, because you aren't focusing on the work while working anymore! I don't understand why you are trying to confuse me, I'm trying to figure out some way to generate revenue with available tools and when I report a bug to improve them you give me hell about options. Why? It's simple, it's a bug. Why was the first response not that of, we don't want to work on that because it's boring (why it's supposed to be paid development anyway). For the justification to be, "we draw a line at professional" is absurd. It's difficult to understand and if Apple is the problem here, then why are you responding as Apple? If this is sincere, then there's no reason you shouldn't be teaching someone from the compiler as a start then have them paid to work on fixing playback of this video. It's crazy to think you need another codec to justify some insane license because you couldn't comment the simple truth in your code for the sake of someone harassing the author about it because you didn't pay them enough to live comfortably. Responding to bug reports with loops of nonsense to frustrate is not the answer.

Sign in to join this conversation.

No Label

Download

What's New

Blender Studio

Manual

Developers Blog

Documentation

Benchmark

Blender Conference

Development Fund

One-time Donations

Quicktime export won't open in quicktime #94274