Add feature to insert nodes on existing links based on search #95259

New Issue

Simon Thommes · 2022-01-27T17:37:49+01:00

Simon Thommes commented

2022-01-27 17:37:49 +01:00

The node link drag search feature allows for an efficient workflow when extending node-trees with new connections. A workflow that is based more on inserting nodes on existing connections does not benefit from this.

There should be a design to bring the same context based search functionality to a node insertion based workflow.

There have been different solutions proposed:

Replace {key Shift RMB} Drag to insert reroutes with node search
Drag from socket onto connected link to initialize search
Allow typing directly after {key Shift A} to place node on link afterwards (#94108)
After regular link drag search: Holding a modifier key to insert a node on a link

The node link drag search feature allows for an efficient workflow when extending node-trees with new connections. A workflow that is based more on inserting nodes on existing connections does not benefit from this. There should be a design to bring the same context based search functionality to a node insertion based workflow. There have been different solutions proposed: - Replace {key Shift RMB} Drag to insert reroutes with node search - Drag from socket onto connected link to initialize search - Allow typing directly after {key Shift A} to place node on link afterwards (#94108) - After regular link drag search: Holding a modifier key to insert a node on a link

Simon Thommes commented

2022-01-27 17:37:49 +01:00

Changed status from 'Needs Triage' to: 'Confirmed'

Simon Thommes commented

2022-01-27 17:37:49 +01:00

Added subscriber: @SimonThommes

Simon Thommes commented

2022-01-27 17:40:08 +01:00

Some of my initial thoughts to keep track in this task:

These kind of workflow efficiency features are meant for more experienced users, so I value usability higher than discoverability (which, of course, is still a relevant point)
Using the context of the node insertion as a limitation of the search results is one of the main points why the link dragging feature improves workflow efficiency. So the solution of this problem should also be designed around providing context the same way.
Ideally the selection of what the node will be connected to should already be clear when initializing the search
Designing features around neatly organizing node-trees is a positive. (Of course there have to be good tools to allow this.)

Some of my initial thoughts to keep track in this task: - These kind of workflow efficiency features are meant for more experienced users, so I value usability higher than discoverability (which, of course, is still a relevant point) - Using the context of the node insertion as a limitation of the search results is one of the main points why the link dragging feature improves workflow efficiency. So the solution of this problem should also be designed around providing context the same way. - Ideally the selection of what the node will be connected to should already be clear when initializing the search - Designing features around neatly organizing node-trees is a positive. (Of course there have to be good tools to allow this.)

Ludvik Koutny commented

2022-01-28 10:57:59 +01:00

Added subscriber: @Rawalanche

Ludvik Koutny commented

2022-01-28 10:57:59 +01:00

The first one seems like the worst solution to me:

The reroutes will become much less comfortable to create. Especially when creating multiple of them in a sequence, which happens quite often when cleaning up node networks. Granted, people don't use them that much now because of the ugly vertical tangents, but once that is fixed, they will become a lot more prominent.
The reroutes are created in a way that you draw a stroke crossing the node wire. You can also cross multiple node wires at once with this stroke. It would be very odd to have this behavior spawn a search box instead, where you can select something else than reroute node. How would it work then? Would for example a math node be then connected to all the wires which have been crossed?
As a new user, if I Shift+RMB drag over a node wires, and it adds the reroure node, it's obvious to me what the feature does. If, however, I do the same operation, and it instead opens the exactly same search box as the F3 key or click-dragging node socket onto empty area does, with the exception of highlighting reroute in the search instead of starting off empty, how do I interpret what kind of feature is this? Is this some sort of search result preset? And why does it have this line drawing mode in the same way the "cut node links" tool has? It would be very confusing.

I would add one more missing solution:
Drag from socket on any empty space (instead of exactly on top of the existing link) and search for desired node. Then, Enter key would simply place the node the same way it does now, but Shift+Enter would connect the node through the links existing on the socket which was dragged from. Basically, just using the already existing, recently added, click-drag search feature, just extending it with Shift+Enter hotkey combination to complement the existing Enter hotkey.

Anyway, either second, fourth or mine solution are those I'd vote for. The first one would severely reduce usability of existing feature as well as making it very confusing to decipher what that feature actually is.

The first one seems like the worst solution to me: 1. The reroutes will become much less comfortable to create. Especially when creating multiple of them in a sequence, which happens quite often when cleaning up node networks. Granted, people don't use them that much now because of the ugly vertical tangents, but once that is fixed, they will become a lot more prominent. 2. The reroutes are created in a way that you draw a stroke crossing the node wire. You can also cross multiple node wires at once with this stroke. It would be very odd to have this behavior spawn a search box instead, where you can select something else than reroute node. How would it work then? Would for example a math node be then connected to all the wires which have been crossed? 3. As a new user, if I Shift+RMB drag over a node wires, and it adds the reroure node, it's obvious to me what the feature does. If, however, I do the same operation, and it instead opens the exactly same search box as the F3 key or click-dragging node socket onto empty area does, with the exception of highlighting reroute in the search instead of starting off empty, how do I interpret what kind of feature is this? Is this some sort of search result preset? And why does it have this line drawing mode in the same way the "cut node links" tool has? It would be very confusing. I would add one more missing solution: Drag from socket on any empty space (instead of exactly on top of the existing link) and search for desired node. Then, Enter key would simply place the node the same way it does now, but Shift+Enter would connect the node through the links existing on the socket which was dragged from. Basically, just using the already existing, recently added, click-drag search feature, just extending it with Shift+Enter hotkey combination to complement the existing Enter hotkey. Anyway, either second, fourth or mine solution are those I'd vote for. The first one would severely reduce usability of existing feature as well as making it very confusing to decipher what that feature actually is.

Simon Thommes commented

2022-01-28 11:59:47 +01:00

@Rawalanche How is the solution you are mentioning different from the 4th one I added in the description? In that you hold the modifier key before you confirm the search choice? That seems to make it a bit opaque to me what the modifier key is actually doing.

Ludvik Koutny commented

2022-01-28 12:15:05 +01:00

In #95259#1296872, @SimonThommes wrote:
@Rawalanche How is the solution you are mentioning different from the 4th one I added in the description? In that you hold the modifier key before you confirm the search choice? That seems to make it a bit opaque to me what the modifier key is actually doing.

Ah, yeah. It may be the same, just a bit ambiguously named then. Perhaps it'd be good to specify that the stage at which the modifier key has to be held is when confirming the search result. Right now, it may also sound like you are suggesting holding a modifier key before starting drag search or during it before releasing the mouse button.

> In #95259#1296872, @SimonThommes wrote: > @Rawalanche How is the solution you are mentioning different from the 4th one I added in the description? In that you hold the modifier key before you confirm the search choice? That seems to make it a bit opaque to me what the modifier key is actually doing. Ah, yeah. It may be the same, just a bit ambiguously named then. Perhaps it'd be good to specify that the stage at which the modifier key has to be held is when confirming the search result. Right now, it may also sound like you are suggesting holding a modifier key before starting drag search or during it before releasing the mouse button.

Alfa Coello commented

2022-01-28 18:45:51 +01:00

Added subscriber: @Alfa-1

Alfa Coello commented

2022-01-28 18:45:51 +01:00

If wires were selectable you could drag them from any part in a connected link and trigger the link search (thus inserting the desired node inbetween) and maybe adding the functionality off switching to the nearest socket of the node that is targeting when the drag is close enough (similiar to Alt + S in the node wrangler add-on). The selected wires would be highlighted and that would also make them easier to distinguish (shift to add to the selection and so on, like how it alredy works with other things in the software).

Shift + A and then been able to type for search instead of pressing S first would be awesome.

If wires were selectable you could drag them from any part in a connected link and trigger the link search (thus inserting the desired node inbetween) and maybe adding the functionality off switching to the nearest socket of the node that is targeting when the drag is close enough (similiar to Alt + S in the node wrangler add-on). The selected wires would be highlighted and that would also make them easier to distinguish (shift to add to the selection and so on, like how it alredy works with other things in the software). Shift + A and then been able to type for search instead of pressing S first would be awesome.

user1 commented

2022-01-30 10:45:59 +01:00

Added subscriber: @user1

user1 commented

2022-01-30 10:45:59 +01:00

Additional key strokes for adding a reroute?
There are two major methods for calling nodes: A text search (with or without dragging noodles first) and shift-a.
The second one is superior, because at the beginning you force yourself onto the learning curve, but get rewarded by an inner map of the existing options, which avoids being surprised by the existance of a new node, which happens all the time to new students who only poke in the dark, and when i see students doing the text search, i always force them to go back and do it the proper way. For typing you often need two hands, so you will have to let go the mouse, and the workflow is dead (that's why i want a shift-a in the RMB context menu, right at the top of the menu, followed by "Undo" and "Quick Favorites". Moving the mouse pointer to the header to reach the shift-a there kills the flow too.). Please try to not punish these brave students (who took the effort of memorizing the options visually) when you try to improve the "wrong" method. Thanks.

Additional key strokes for adding a reroute? There are two major methods for calling nodes: A text search (with or without dragging noodles first) and shift-a. The second one is superior, because at the beginning you force yourself onto the learning curve, but get rewarded by an inner map of the existing options, which avoids being surprised by the existance of a new node, which happens all the time to new students who only poke in the dark, and when i see students doing the text search, i always force them to go back and do it the proper way. For typing you often need two hands, so you will have to let go the mouse, and the workflow is dead (that's why i want a shift-a in the RMB context menu, right at the top of the menu, followed by "Undo" and "Quick Favorites". Moving the mouse pointer to the header to reach the shift-a there kills the flow too.). Please try to not punish these brave students (who took the effort of memorizing the options visually) when you try to improve the "wrong" method. Thanks.

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Add feature to insert nodes on existing links based on search #95259