If the user changes the OS terminal to one that cannot be hidden by its clients, then blender cannot hide it #96672

New Issue

Dan McLaughlin · 2022-03-21T13:31:51+01:00

Dan McLaughlin commented

2022-03-21 13:31:51 +01:00

System Information
Operating system: Win11 (also probably true on Win10)
Graphics card: 3090

Blender Version
Broken: 3.1
Worked: probably N/A

Short description of error
When Windows Terminal is set as the default terminal Blender will launch under it, but can't hide it - the terminal will always be visible and Window>Toggle System Console doesn't work.

Updated from Harleys comment - since Blender can't work with Windows Terminal and it breaks the use model and menu choice, change this to a request to have Blender only use the old style Windows terminal regardless of the default terminal.

Exact steps for others to reproduce the error
Windows Terminal is a Microsoft replacement for the default cmd window, supporting tabs, settings and other advanced features.

Install Windows Terminal (Microsoft Store or otherwise)
Open it, on the tab bar click the down arrow
Click Settings in the menu (or just hit Ctrl-,)
Set Default terminal application to Windows Terminal
Close, start blender which launches from a Windows Terminal
Close the terminal and Blender quits
Toggle System Console doesn't work either

**System Information** Operating system: Win11 (also probably true on Win10) Graphics card: 3090 **Blender Version** Broken: 3.1 Worked: probably N/A **Short description of error** When Windows Terminal is set as the default terminal Blender will launch under it, but can't hide it - the terminal will always be visible and Window>Toggle System Console doesn't work. Updated from Harleys comment - since Blender can't work with Windows Terminal and it breaks the use model and menu choice, change this to a request to have Blender only use the old style Windows terminal regardless of the default terminal. **Exact steps for others to reproduce the error** Windows Terminal is a Microsoft replacement for the default cmd window, supporting tabs, settings and other advanced features. - Install Windows Terminal (Microsoft Store or otherwise) - Open it, on the tab bar click the down arrow - Click Settings in the menu (or just hit Ctrl-,) - Set Default terminal application to Windows Terminal - Close, start blender which launches from a Windows Terminal - Close the terminal and Blender quits - Toggle System Console doesn't work either ``` ```

Dan McLaughlin commented

2022-03-21 13:31:51 +01:00

Added subscriber: @DrMc

Harley Acheson commented

2022-03-21 19:46:06 +01:00

Added subscriber: @Harley

Harley Acheson commented

2022-03-21 19:46:06 +01:00

We currently have no solution to this design change by Microsoft.

We currently use the Windows API function GetConsoleWindow to get the console window handle so that we can show/hide it. Unfortunately this does not work when using virtual terminals like Windows Terminal. The Microsoft documentation on this function not only mentions that this will not longer work, but it "does not have a virtual terminal equivalent": https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/console/getconsolewindow.

You can read more details about Microsoft's design decisions regarding this, with specific details about this issue specifically in the "Direct Window Access" section: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/console/classic-vs-vt.

In a nutshell, virtual terminals can't be hidden by the applications they host.

We currently have no solution to this design change by Microsoft. We currently use the Windows API function `GetConsoleWindow` to get the console window handle so that we can show/hide it. Unfortunately this does not work when using virtual terminals like Windows Terminal. The Microsoft documentation on this function not only mentions that this will not longer work, but it "does not have a virtual terminal equivalent": https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/console/getconsolewindow. You can read more details about Microsoft's design decisions regarding this, with specific details about this issue specifically in the "Direct Window Access" section: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/console/classic-vs-vt. In a nutshell, virtual terminals can't be hidden by the applications they host.

Dan McLaughlin changed title from ~~Windows Terminal as default terminal, Blender can't control it (no toggling)~~ to Blender Windows should ignore default terminal and always use cmd

2022-03-22 00:06:13 +01:00

Dan McLaughlin commented

2022-03-22 00:07:45 +01:00

Thanks for the informative reply Harley!

OK then, I updated the task to "Blender should only use the old style terminal, regardless of the preferences setting." Maybe there's a reason why that isn't easy, but since virtual terminals breaks Blender features Blender should just not allow use of Virtual terminals, and ignore the Windows preference.

Thanks for the informative reply Harley! OK then, I updated the task to "Blender should only use the old style terminal, regardless of the preferences setting." Maybe there's a reason why that isn't easy, but since virtual terminals breaks Blender features Blender should just not allow use of Virtual terminals, and ignore the Windows preference.

Germano Cavalcante commented

2022-03-22 15:29:54 +01:00

Added subscriber: @mano-wii

Germano Cavalcante commented

2022-03-22 15:29:54 +01:00

Changed status from 'Needs Triage' to: 'Confirmed'

Germano Cavalcante commented

2022-03-22 15:29:54 +01:00

I'm not sure if preventing Blender from using "Windows Terminal" would be an ideal solution.
I'm not familiar with what's involved in the blender console, but blender always showing it while in other applications doesn't really seem to be a problem.
So I'm confirming as a bug for now.

I'm not sure if preventing Blender from using "Windows Terminal" would be an ideal solution. I'm not familiar with what's involved in the blender console, but blender always showing it while in other applications doesn't really seem to be a problem. So I'm confirming as a bug for now.

Germano Cavalcante changed title from ~~Blender Windows should ignore default terminal and always use cmd~~ to Can't hide console when 'Windows Terminal' is set as the default terminal (instead of cmd)

2022-03-22 15:33:48 +01:00

Ray molenkamp commented

2022-03-22 15:41:45 +01:00

Added subscriber: @LazyDodo

Ray molenkamp commented

2022-03-22 15:41:45 +01:00

we don't get to pick the terminal we launch in that's up to the OS, not sure why we would classify it as a blender bug as we have no control over this?

Harley Acheson commented

2022-03-22 16:00:16 +01:00

This report could be reworded to "If the user changes the OS terminal to one that cannot be hidden by its clients, then blender cannot hide it"

Germano Cavalcante commented

2022-03-22 16:12:13 +01:00

As I understand the problem is the fact that Blender always launch with a terminal.
Therefore the report could be described as:
"If the user changes the OS terminal to one that cannot be hidden by its clients, then blender always launches with an unrequested terminal"

If the solution is out of control, we can consider it a Known Issue.

As I understand the problem is the fact that Blender always launch with a terminal. Therefore the report could be described as: "If the user changes the OS terminal to one that cannot be hidden by its clients, then blender always launches with an unrequested terminal" If the solution is out of control, we can consider it a `Known Issue`.

Ray molenkamp commented

2022-03-22 16:22:06 +01:00

Known issue would be things inside our control but no one scheduled to work on for at least 6 months

Known issue would be things *inside* our control but no one scheduled to work on for at least 6 months

Dan McLaughlin changed title from ~~Can't hide console when 'Windows Terminal' is set as the default terminal (instead of cmd)~~ to If the user changes the OS terminal to one that cannot be hidden by its clients, then blender cannot hide it

2022-03-22 17:07:00 +01:00

Dan McLaughlin commented

2022-03-22 17:09:18 +01:00

Change title to Harley's suggestion - the issue really being Blender has menu picks to hide the system console when it can't.

Not a significant issue obviously but worth having an issue for at any rate for the next time somebody is in that part of the code.

Change title to Harley's suggestion - the issue really being Blender has menu picks to hide the system console when it can't. Not a significant issue obviously but worth having an issue for at any rate for the next time somebody is in that part of the code.

Harley Acheson commented

2022-03-22 17:54:23 +01:00

I don't think there is much we can do "next time somebody is in that part of the code". Even if we were to test for the situation and grey out the menu option we'd still get bug reports about why. setConsoleWindowState could maybe print out an error message to the console if it gets nothing from GetConsoleWindow, assuming that is what happens in this case, but not sure anyone would notice.

In a nutshell your OS is giving you a new option. If you choose to use that by default then you lose some functionality in some programs, because of what features Microsoft has chosen to include in Windows Terminal. But they appear to be working on a fix... https://github.com/microsoft/terminal/issues/12570

I don't think there is much we can do "next time somebody is in that part of the code". Even if we were to test for the situation and grey out the menu option we'd still get bug reports about why. `setConsoleWindowState` could maybe print out an error message to the console if it gets nothing from `GetConsoleWindow`, assuming that is what happens in this case, but not sure anyone would notice. In a nutshell your OS is giving you a new option. If you *choose* to use that by default then you lose some functionality in some programs, because of what features Microsoft has chosen to include in Windows Terminal. But they appear to be working on a fix... https://github.com/microsoft/terminal/issues/12570

Raimund Klink commented

2022-11-25 18:01:33 +01:00

Added subscriber: @Raimund58

Raimund Klink commented

2022-11-25 18:01:33 +01:00

@Harley
https://github.com/microsoft/terminal/issues/12570 was closed and marked as fixed... But is it fixed for Blender as well?

@Harley https://github.com/microsoft/terminal/issues/12570 was closed and marked as fixed... But is it fixed for Blender as well?

Harley Acheson commented

2022-11-25 18:37:48 +01:00

@Raimund58

That issue is our exact problem. In fact their "test case" - ::ShowWindow(::GetConsoleWindow(), SW_HIDE); - exactly describes our usage.

We've been following this issue - how Microsoft is handling this - for a while now. They came to the realization early that their changes broke a lot of usage and have been trying to come up with fixes that work but stay within their plans. That report was closed with a commit, but I've also seem some related reverts as it breaks some of their features. Regardless, the change would only be seen, for now, in something like Windows Terminal Preview , not in the general release of Windows 11 or in a Windows Update yet.

Rather than wait for Microsoft to fix this our current focus has been on the use of the blender-launcher.exe, which appears to solve this problem. However there are still some issues. For one the downloads from Windows store was not set to use that executable - I think this was recently fixed. And there are some issues to do with Taskbar Recents lists and if you select just "Blender" from the Taskbar jumplist it will launch the bare executable. @LazyDodo is working on that.

@Raimund58 That issue is our exact problem. In fact their "test case" - `::ShowWindow(::GetConsoleWindow(), SW_HIDE);` - exactly describes our usage. We've been following this issue - how Microsoft is handling this - for a while now. They came to the realization early that their changes broke a lot of usage and have been trying to come up with fixes that work but stay within their plans. That report was closed with a commit, but I've also seem some related reverts as it breaks some of their features. Regardless, the change would only be seen, for now, in something like [Windows Terminal Preview ](https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/windows-terminal-preview-1-16-release/), not in the general release of Windows 11 or in a Windows Update yet. Rather than wait for Microsoft to fix this our current focus has been on the use of the `blender-launcher.exe`, which appears to solve this problem. However there are still some issues. For one the downloads from Windows store was not set to use that executable - I think this was recently fixed. And there are some issues to do with Taskbar Recents lists and if you select just "Blender" from the Taskbar jumplist it will launch the bare executable. @LazyDodo is working on that.

Faruk Ahmet commented

2023-01-06 23:11:44 +01:00

Added subscriber: @Kuboa

Philipp Oeser removed the

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If the user changes the OS terminal to one that cannot be hidden by its clients, then blender cannot hide it #96672