In T63992#681182, @Abid Maqbool (cto.abid) wrote:

How is the idea about Ctrl + Shift + Up/Down to deselects one side and continue other side?

In T61578#678762, @YAFU (YAFU) wrote:

Hello.
About the check boxes for collections, I think the idea of this has been that it works like the arrange in boxes for view layers that we have in 2.79 at bottom. What I do not understand is why when you disable a collection the content disappears from outliner. I imagine that for better organization you will always want to see the content of the collections even though it is disabled. I’m not sure if grayed out the content can be confused with disabling viewport view, but perhaps there should be another way to indicate that it is disabled but without the elements disappear from outliner (strikethrough text, color change, a mark, etc). Or perhaps none of the buttons on the right should grayed out the collection/content, and reserve grayed out text only for disabled/unchecked collections and its content.

Update with icons, instead of columns changing that depicts current mode.
Allow to recognize what mode of visibility is currently on.

In T64065#669552, @LazyDodo (LazyDodo) wrote:

b46245470f79 is 2 weeks old....

Same win 8.1 x64 MSI MSI GE70 2PL Apache

Here is an example of swap/invert modes
Object visibility can be inverted or swapped, that gives ability to view rendederability of objects as visibility.
Personnaly, I would like to prefer columns switching, to define mode (first column is for changing value by visibility), that will make things more clean.

Pretty much clean solution)

Visualization in the preview window is best done as low as possible.
If people visualize Viewport, they are consigned to the quality of the viewport level.

In T63991#668200, @William Reynish (billreynish) wrote:

@Paul Kotelevets (1D_Inc)
I can’t see why it would, that would be rather arbitrary.

What if to draw them in place of Renderability while edit mode?

In T63992#668134, @Julian Eisel (Severin) wrote:

I realize this only aims for basic support. However for more than that I'd like to leave some notes here.

A very nice!)
What about pickwalk behaviour in outliner?

• It’s too much of a hassle to make sure the viewport visibility matches the render visibility.

In rBA08d30a13bf6a4d64b049b1917595ecb6097ccfa9#216711, @Philipp Oeser (lichtwerk) wrote:

Hi @Paul Kotelevets (1D_Inc),

I've just fixed another bug with f2 (rBA812d1c1ec3f3), could you rebase your proposed changes on current master and post your patch as a Differential? https://developer.blender.org/differential/diff/create/

• why Adjust UV off by default? (because of the bug? -- see above, now fixed)?

Also - important - fuction to inverse visibility is needed.
That will split scene into two global "slots" (visible vs invisible) with ability to switch between them, that gives full fast control over the visibility of entire scene.
A very nice tool for vertical (hierarchical) scene navigation.

Got the same issue, failed to get viewport animation in less that 5 secs per frame at any mode, while rendering took 14 sec per frame.

In T55194#664819, @T.R.O. Nunes (3Rton) wrote:

I greatly enjoy the Shading piemenu (Z-piemenu)

Well, yep, there were no qiuck wireframe mode (very useful in modeling) and no quick texture (not material) mode.
v 2.80.57 seems to behave different - there is also no viewport rendering shortcut.

In T56702#535872, @Duarte Farrajota Ramos (duarteframos) wrote:

In T56702#535852, @William Reynish (billreynish) wrote:

Alt+LMB for view manipulation works in Blender currently when Emulate 3 Button Mouse is enabled in the Preferences. This is useful for users who don't have a 3-button mouse, and more importantly, many modern mice have unfomfortable scroll wheels that are not nice to click. Alt+LMB has always been an alternative, it just happened to not work for LMB select. We should fix that.

If I may barge in with a different suggestion I have for the better part of the last years been using a RMB tweak event for 3D view rotation, and have grown very fond of it for a few of reasons:

• Mainly because it allows full 3D view manipulation exclusively from the mouse
• Doesn't require any modifier keys whatsoever
• Works without any kind of keyboard interaction (you can even use a wireless mouse or be away from the computer, like for presentation purposes)
• If you keep panning (move view) in the MMB you can fully control viewport navigation with a single hand on the mouse (how conveninent is that? :) )

Well, a very nice movement in the latest build - make all wires step thinner!
It is looking better, especially with no antialiasing!

Aww, it seems that does M - New Collection in 3D Viewport already.
Sorry for that inconvenience.

In T63527#661931, @Dalai Felinto (dfelinto) wrote:

@William Reynish (billreynish) It could be "Collections", or "Visibility".

Well, there are a lot of "Collections" and "Visibilities" over interface already)

Currently
Case A [Shift+M - New Collection] creates cumulative collection with cumulative (multihierarchical) object links
That's behaviour of Collections, as it uses cumulativity.

In T61553#660968, @Brecht Van Lommel (brecht) wrote:

Only images that have been painted on or baked to would be affected by this.

Good. Thanks for clarification.

In T61553#660825, @Campbell Barton (campbellbarton) wrote:

What kind of multiple image file usage cases, if no relations to renders?

Image sequences & stereo files.

In T61553#660728, @Brecht Van Lommel (brecht) wrote:

Only a prompt to save images and .blend file, or only .blend file.

Only prompt (with ability to turn off in properties) seems to be most suitable.
Autosave is suitable if it is needed in 100% cases, but in practice 80% of cases Blender launches is viewing (because Blender is the best viewer of *.blend files) or sketching/temporal usage when user wants to lost those data.
Also, for example, we are watching for filesizes, and we don't need autopacking all that stuff that we temporary brought in file for sketching something.

In T61553#660338, @Brecht Van Lommel (brecht) wrote:

We discussed this at the homestretch workshop. We can't fix this entirely for 2.80, just the most important cases.

• If the image has a file path, save to that.
• If not, the image will be packed automatically.
• Code must be added to make packing of float images as EXR work, currently only works as PNG.
• Difficult cases like image sequences will be left to solve for a later release.

In T63527#660247, @Brecht Van Lommel (brecht) wrote:

You wouldn't use this to manage that many collections. It's more if you have a limited number of top level collections that you switch between often.

In T57683#593853, @William Reynish (billreynish) wrote:

Comments appreciated.

A very nice to have a Collection task!
We've made a devtalk feedback review, with problems considering Collections usability, can be useful.

A good idea!
What about if some images were linked and not packed?

I seems, you are talking about cumulativeness - ability to assign same object to different hirarchical levels?
Yes, it causes some problems

I can hardly imagine how you will do it for 2357 collections in scene.
Maybe by creating special outliner for outliner?
That will be actually interesting to see...

More detailed description at Devtalk
https://devtalk.blender.org/t/layers-maniphest/6578

Debugging why an object is or is not visible is hard.

I remember Revit hint about "Why object is hidden", with the instruction to search in 9 different places in program (visibility states, sections, classic hiding, structural class hiding, building state, building variations, etc.)
Yep, that was time consuming)

Found, that Shift+num toggling is workind in january build of 2.8
It has been broken recently

Here is also Shift toggle inconsistency - Shift+numeral button doesnot toggles collection visibility.

Ability to animate any kind of UI gives sence of power)
I think, that Visibility button binar paradigm is not designed for animation yet
(three states needed instead of two for this ability - non-animated, animated, animated, but not at current frame),
as far as outliner is hierarcial viewing/editing tool, so it have to be animation-independent in order to be in the TOP of hierarchy, to provide ability to view full of it.

Is there cases when that "sence of depth" is useful, or is it supposed to turn slider every time

In T45734#639781, @noki paike (amonpaike) wrote:

@Paul Kotelevets (1D_Inc) I was curious about mechanical blender and I went to try it, I also found the post on blendernation that then links this proposal ...

In T45734#639573, @Justas Ingelevičius (ingis) wrote:

... and it is already written by us in python for about a year ago. Here is it https://github.com/Korchy/1d_np.
Enjoy!)

Hi, nice script! Works well. I have some suggestions.

In T45734#638782, @noki paike (amonpaike) wrote:

In the cad applications, this operation is a standalone tool and often has the name "move" and is separated from the simple functions of grabbing to move objects ..

Having said that, now we have the active tools and an active tool specifically for these operations, would make many happy

This active tool should allow to select the start point of moving the active object/object's or mesh in edit mode, visually measure the distance during the movement (also set the parameter distance & radius from the start point), and with the mouse click to set the destination point. (the snapping obviously essential that work well)

In T45734#637886, @Frederick Desimpel (FrederickD) wrote:

This seems to go somewhere related for editmode :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XCvYmMLf1M

In T55194#626933, @Campbell Barton (campbellbarton) wrote:

It's not planned to add keys from 2.7x map back.

• Apply modifiers can be done w/: Ctrl-A, G.
• Set origin is in the context menu. W, O or RMB, O

In T55194#627798, @Leroy (Leroy) wrote:

@Campbell Barton (campbellbarton) Hi, does the pop-up panel in the 3d viewport will have shortcuts, e.g. Collections Visibility, Object Types Visibility, Overlays and Shading, I think it necessary.

In T55194#627683, @Campbell Barton (campbellbarton) wrote:

@Paul Kotelevets (1D_Inc) the keys from 2.7x that we though worth adding back have already been added back.

See motivation for: T55666

In T55194#626933, @Campbell Barton (campbellbarton) wrote:

It's not planned to add keys from 2.7x map back.

In T61578#623163, @Andrzej Ambroz (jendrzych) wrote:

What's wrong with this?

Looking nice, but there is infinite collections count with ifinite cout of insets.
Personally I would like to propose to duplicate it, in a dopesheet style.

Want to clarify issue about nums. First of all, it is a separate system.
A quick content displaying system (further - QCD) - part of verical (hierarcial) navigation, alongside with Outliner and RenderLayers.
There are workflows that depends on it, because it makes them possible, independently of layers, collections, selection groups, or any other hierarcial units and their number.
It is a unique system in the software industry, that makes Blender out of the ordinary. It's demand depends on the industry to which the workflow of user belongs.

In T61492#620273, @Michael Soluyanov (crantisz) wrote:

here is my post on devtalk related to this tread:

Not exactly, but better than nothing.

The proposal is to get rid of using outliner/GUI at some possible point.
I would prefer to set scene collection to digit 1 (start collection numeration from it) to have ability view whole scene without higlighing everything with alt+H, that freezes computer on complex scenes with selection outlines.

In T61492#620177, @Tomas (Rusculleda) wrote:

What's the use case for moving object to "Scene collection" root? As far as I can see that's not something one should be doing often, so maybe that option souldn't even in the M menu? I know that's a different discussión from the problem at hand here, but it would also solve it.

In T61492#619407, @Campbell Barton (campbellbarton) wrote:

Note that numbers are automatically assigned here, a solution could be to move the top menu item to be the last item.

We _could_ always have an exception where menus can request to handle number keys separately but think this isn't a good idea since it makes otherwise matching menus behave differently.

In T61492#619509, @William Reynish (billreynish) wrote:

I think the numbers for collections is a weak concept to begin with. When you have nesting and unlimited numbers of them, the 1-9 numbers don’t map logically very well.

Thanks, that will make organization of complex scenes faster.

There is some improvemet concept for collections shortcuts.
Currently, 1234 buttons shows a collection, but sending objects requires name in menu (M - "Collection 1" - "Collection 3" for example)
That would be nice if moving to collection will also support their number.

In rBA08d30a13bf6a4d64b049b1917595ecb6097ccfa9#216711, @Philipp Oeser (lichtwerk) wrote:

Hi @Paul Kotelevets (1D_Inc),

I've just fixed another bug with f2 (rBA812d1c1ec3f3), could you rebase your proposed changes on current master and post your patch as a Differential? https://developer.blender.org/differential/diff/create/

• why Adjust UV off by default? (because of the bug? -- see above, now fixed)?

Hello everyone!
You may know me as author of F2 tool concept.
Previously I ordered it to Bartius Crouch, and he submitted it, that's how F2 has come to Blender.
But then Bartius Crouch has gone from F2 development, but F2 was in progress all this time, I ordered F2 updates to different local developers, so latest version for 2.8 is 1.8.4 and can be found here:
https://github.com/iceythe/blender-scripts/blob/master/2.8_contrib/mesh_f2.py

Previously, in 2.79, we made such tool in Bargool_1D_tools , called "Isolate layers".
It leaves turned on only those layers, that selected objects belongs to.
Simple, and extremely useful option for complex scenes, while layers were cumulative, just like collections.

There is also need in "Isolate selected Collections" option on RMB menu, that will turn off every collection except collections that are not selected in outliner, or which contains no selected objects in outliner.
So if some objects selected in outliner belongs to 3 collections, all 3 of them will stay turned on, other unselected collections will turn off.

Temporary assigned to Alt+X
Keymap - 3DView - 3DView (Global)
Operator = wm.context_toggle_enum
Context = space_data.shading.color_type
Value = MATERIAL
Value = TEXTURE

It seems there is no ability to assign shortcut to shading.color_type, for quick switching to "textures" mode and back to "material" during UV unwrapping.
It is quite essential, because checker texture disguises geometry, so the only way to work with UV is quick switching to textured mode to preview and then back to shaded to provide selections and operations.

Thank you for keeping transform modal map for knife tool, it helps a lot!
Everything is working about pan on RMB)

Another issue with Pan view on right mouse setup - cancelling any kind of action with RMB causes immediate panning instead of just cancelling.
Looks like conflict with Transform modal map.

I need to remove Context menu on right click and replace it with Pan view while left click select option turned on.
How is it possible to do?

1. Well, Users are creating objects, that increases entropy.

Users cannot tidy up sorted lists, they just can bring a mess in it. If sorted list doesnot fits they needs, that means, that users messed up with object's naming.
So they have to wisely fix their naming or use collections to sort something out (as they were using layers in 2.79). Maybe both of them together.

2. Try to ask for special shortcut like Shift+X for deep through-structural outliner selection remove.

In T58969#575071, @Mantas Kuginis (MantasKuginis) wrote:

1. Could you help me to understand why there is possible to change order of collections, by dragging in outliner but is impossible to rearrange objects order which are inside collections ? Isn't object rearranging also useful thing ? Or maybe it is possible but I didn't find how....
2. Why Delete shortcut also works only with collection but not the objects ?

Well, sounds nice and very welcome.
I've ordered to my developer selecting all outliner object between two selected (we've got too long lists for box selecting) just a few days ago, so Shift and Control modifiers are very needed.

That means, that 3D cursor have to be grabbed with selected objects, also any kind matching/alignation/sideshift/rotor tools reqiures at least two points.

In T45734#559425, @Vitalii Krylov (Coverty) wrote:

Hi guys i found some examples of how it can be from guys on bc who explains some actions with manipulators:

https://blender.community/c/rightclickselect/rHbbbc/free-move-and-rotation-of-pivot
https://blender.community/c/rightclickselect/vqbbbc/interactive-pivot

I think its very useful.

There is mathematical problem. Origin in Blender is not the same thing, like pivot in maya. Blender's origin is true origin of mesh - it's base and zero. Maya's pivot - is local transformation point, that is counted from real origin that is never shown.

In T55162#551397, @Zsolt Stefan (zsoltst) wrote:

The command "Center View to Mouse” is missing from the new keymap (used to be Alt-F).

...

Even better if it has a one-key shortcut, it is a very quick and precise way to navigate the 3D view, about on the same level as rotating, panning and zooming.

About accessibility and relevance.

In T55162#548134, @Campbell Barton (campbellbarton) wrote:

In T55162#548102, @carlos (c17vfx) wrote:

Please consider disabling this option is always annoying for beginners

Which option?

In T55162#549833, @ThinkingPolygons (ThinkingPolygons) wrote:

In T55162#549786, @Paul Kotelevets (1D_Inc) wrote:

In T55162#549785, @ThinkingPolygons (ThinkingPolygons) wrote:

@Paul Kotelevets (1D_Inc) If you think about consistency inside of blender, you'll realize that using ctrl for subtract doesn't make sense there.

There is noting can be about consistency but about relevance and accessibility.
Relevant functions should be accessible easier, not "like in Zbrush" or "Substance Painter."
If you are setting default button to a key, that even don't exist or is moved on some keyboard types, obviously, you are making mistake.

Also.

There is no consistency about Alt in sculpting, because it is not shortcut, as far as it requires pressing.
So both Alt and Ctrl have the same consistency.

What you are saying makes no sense to me, but no worries. If people is ok with it, then it's fine. I changed my hotkey to alt already. Cheers. ✌

In T55162#549785, @ThinkingPolygons (ThinkingPolygons) wrote:

@Paul Kotelevets (1D_Inc) If you think about consistency inside of blender, you'll realize that using ctrl for subtract doesn't make sense there.

Obviously, because Alt is not better than Ctrl.
It is harder to find by touch and some keyboards have only right Alt.

IMHO your suggesting changes which are outside the scope of this task.

I have another proposal about Deleting (X), Linking (Ctrl+L), Merging (V for me), Specs (W), Edges/Faces/Verts (Crtl+E, Ctrl+F, Ctrl+V) and other similar menus behaviour.

I confirm, translate tweak is useful, especially in edit mode.
It is better to new users to handle this feature, than turn it off.

With the new menus flip-normals isn't available in the context menu or the face menu.
We could have a key binding to access this, will check with @William Reynish (billreynish) & @venomgfx since I think this is a commonly used operation which could be in a popup or have its own key.

Not sure what you mean: V is Rip not Merge.

In T55162#548060, @YAFU (YAFU) wrote:

We not only have infinite possibilities of collections, but also sub collections. In my opinion, the best way to manage them quickly is with a hotkey + numpad. It would also be ideal if developers could achieve a method to visualize better position number of collections in the outliner stack.
https://devtalk.blender.org/t/blender-2-8-user-interface-design/505/594

In T55162#548078, @Lawrence D'Oliveiro (ldo) wrote:

Given that collections have names, isn’t the most logical thing to do is allow typing the initial part of the name, and offer some kind of autocomplete?

We can now have an arbitrary number of collections, not just 20

Yes.
But there is the trick - layers were used for quick visual control.
Users can control 20 with keys, and that is enough for quicksorting and managing scene.

What about Shift+N - flip normals, ctrl+shift+N - recalculate?

Yes, that's why I called Q almost impossible.
Yes, Alt+D was binded before extend vertices were invented, so extend was moved to Alt+Shift+D.
However, this one is not much important and depends of modeling (CAD/organic) style.

There are also some less convenient but yet a lot of useful for edit mode

Well, because of relevance.
Button is action, alt+button is inverse action - common logic of most functions in b3d