Mesh selection in viewport broken with scenes using a high number of models #104008

New Issue

Michael Klein · 2023-01-19T16:52:53+01:00

Michael Klein commented

2023-01-19 16:52:53 +01:00

System Information
Operating system: Windows-10-10.0.22621-SP0 64 Bits
Graphics card: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Laptop GPU/PCIe/SSE2 NVIDIA Corporation 4.5.0 NVIDIA 528.02

Blender Version
Broken: version: 3.5.0 Alpha, branch: master, commit date: 2023-01-19 00:14, hash: 83f9218801
Worked: Never (2.8+)
Short description of error
We are working on a commercial project with imported SketchUp scenes using 55K+ models and running more and more into broken scenes with selection issues in the viewport.

What we figured out so far:

Selection in the outliner works
Some models can be selected by a point and click
Other models can't be selected by a point and click
Models at a different location will be selected by a point and click and not at the mouse pointer location
Box select is messed up and doesn't work overall (selects just parts of the model or fails completely)
Lasso select seems to work as intended
Circle select seems to work as intended (but can freeze Blender)
Some random models can cause a hard crash of Blender when selecting them by a point and click
When we delete all my other scenes in the Blender file and purge the data the selection modes work again.

Exact steps for others to reproduce the error

T104008_Selection_Bug_350_v006_CUBES_REPORT.blend

Try to select cubes.

**System Information** Operating system: Windows-10-10.0.22621-SP0 64 Bits Graphics card: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Laptop GPU/PCIe/SSE2 NVIDIA Corporation 4.5.0 NVIDIA 528.02 **Blender Version** Broken: version: 3.5.0 Alpha, branch: master, commit date: 2023-01-19 00:14, hash: `83f9218801` Worked: Never (2.8+) **Short description of error** We are working on a commercial project with imported SketchUp scenes using 55K+ models and running more and more into broken scenes with selection issues in the viewport. `What we figured out so far:` - Selection in the outliner works - Some models can be selected by a point and click - Other models can't be selected by a point and click - Models at a different location will be selected by a point and click and not at the mouse pointer location - Box select is messed up and doesn't work overall (selects just parts of the model or fails completely) - Lasso select seems to work as intended - Circle select seems to work as intended (but can freeze Blender) - Some random models can cause a hard crash of Blender when selecting them by a point and click **When we delete all my other scenes in the Blender file and purge the data the selection modes work again.** **Exact steps for others to reproduce the error** ![image.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F14176673/image.png) [T104008_Selection_Bug_350_v006_CUBES_REPORT.blend](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F14176648/T104008_Selection_Bug_350_v006_CUBES_REPORT.blend) Try to select cubes.

Michael Klein commented

2023-01-19 16:52:53 +01:00

Added subscriber: @Renderbicks

Ray molenkamp changed title from ~~+++ Serious +++ mesh selection issue in viewport with complex scenes~~ to Mesh selection issue in viewport with complex scenes

2023-01-19 17:03:29 +01:00

Steffen Dünner commented

2023-01-19 17:37:53 +01:00

Added subscriber: @SteffenD

Iliya Katushenock commented

2023-01-19 17:42:14 +01:00

Added subscriber: @mod_moder

Iliya Katushenock commented

2023-01-19 17:42:14 +01:00

I really don't think there are so few places in blender to bypass and test them all in all possible scenarios, just excluding some of the cases you describe.
To confirm this, you must at least have a way to reproduce this problem.
So you can:

Try to build and use a debug blender (to get a stack (but there may not be a stack)).
Find the version of blender where it worked (and try to find the earliest version where it broke).
Create a version of the project that can be shared without problems (in the public domain):
- Or removing all content protected by rights, replacing it with blanks and primitives.
- Or using free versions of the same assets, if any have.

I really don't think there are so few places in blender to bypass and test them all in all possible scenarios, just excluding some of the cases you describe. To confirm this, you must at least have a way to reproduce this problem. So you can: - Try to build and use a debug blender (to get a stack (but there may not be a stack)). - Find the version of blender where it worked (and try to find the earliest version where it broke). - Create a version of the project that can be shared without problems (in the public domain): - Or removing all content protected by rights, replacing it with blanks and primitives. - Or using free versions of the same assets, if any have.

Iliya Katushenock commented

2023-01-19 17:45:36 +01:00

Also. Here is a video example. On it, I demonstrate running the blender through the console. Try to do this in order to have at least some information about the fall after the crash.
2023-01-19 19-43-54.mp4

Also. Here is a video example. On it, I demonstrate running the blender through the console. Try to do this in order to have at least some information about the fall after the crash. [2023-01-19 19-43-54.mp4](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F14176574/2023-01-19_19-43-54.mp4)

Michael Klein commented

2023-01-19 17:46:07 +01:00

+++ UPDATE +++

In #104008#1476826, @mod_moder wrote:
I really don't think there are so few places in blender to bypass and test them all in all possible scenarios, just excluding some of the cases you describe.
To confirm this, you must at least have a way to reproduce this problem.
So you can:

Try to build and use a debug blender (to get a stack (but there may not be a stack)).

Find the version of blender where it worked (and try to find the earliest version where it broke).

Create a version of the project that can be shared without problems (in the public domain):

Or removing all content protected by rights, replacing it with blanks and primitives.

Or using free versions of the same assets, if any have.

Unfortunately not possible this way. It has something to do with the complexity. Reducing the scene will remove the issue at a point. The bug is a critical showstopper here. I will try to replace all objects with a cube now to see if this works.

+++ UPDATE +++ > In #104008#1476826, @mod_moder wrote: > I really don't think there are so few places in blender to bypass and test them all in all possible scenarios, just excluding some of the cases you describe. > To confirm this, you must at least have a way to reproduce this problem. > So you can: > - Try to build and use a debug blender (to get a stack (but there may not be a stack)). > - Find the version of blender where it worked (and try to find the earliest version where it broke). > - Create a version of the project that can be shared without problems (in the public domain): > - Or removing all content protected by rights, replacing it with blanks and primitives. > - Or using free versions of the same assets, if any have. Unfortunately not possible this way. It has something to do with the complexity. Reducing the scene will remove the issue at a point. The bug is a critical showstopper here. I will try to replace all objects with a cube now to see if this works.

Iliya Katushenock commented

2023-01-19 17:49:47 +01:00

It's good! Also, in case of failure, try to explore other suggested options.

Ray molenkamp commented

2023-01-19 17:50:30 +01:00

Added subscriber: @LazyDodo

Ray molenkamp commented

2023-01-19 17:50:30 +01:00

if it does depend on the complex geometry, applying the cast modifier and turn all meshes into spheres may be an option for you, be sure to apply the modifier though, so it doesn't retain the original mesh data

Michael Klein commented

2023-01-19 18:19:35 +01:00

In #104008#1476833, @LazyDodo wrote:
if it does depend on the complex geometry, applying the cast modifier and turn all meshes into spheres may be an option for you, be sure to apply the modifier though, so it doesn't retain the original mesh data

Same idea ;-) I simply linked a cube to all objects. The instances give a small scene with the issue and it's clear that it's not the geometry but the number of objects.

The right cube can be selected in the viewport. But not the left cube.

If you select now the right cube and delete it and click on the left cube, Blender will close immediately.

> In #104008#1476833, @LazyDodo wrote: > if it does depend on the complex geometry, applying the cast modifier and turn all meshes into spheres may be an option for you, be sure to apply the modifier though, so it doesn't retain the original mesh data Same idea ;-) I simply linked a cube to all objects. The instances give a small scene with the issue and it's clear that it's not the geometry but the number of objects. The right cube can be selected in the viewport. But not the left cube. If you select now the right cube and delete it and click on the left cube, Blender will close immediately. ![image.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F14176673/image.png)

Michael Klein commented

2023-01-19 18:23:18 +01:00

When I prepared the scene first by isolating the cubes for a crash by a Collection I figured out that the above crash is fixed when I search the models in the outliner, select them and move them with "m" to a new Collection.

And then the left cube is selectable in the viewport again.

Could it be that the number of objects in a collection causes this error?

When I prepared the scene first by isolating the cubes for a crash by a Collection I figured out that the above crash is fixed when I search the models in the outliner, select them and move them with "m" to a new Collection. And then the left cube is selectable in the viewport again. Could it be that the number of objects in a collection causes this error? ![image.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F14176683/image.png)

Michael Klein commented

2023-01-19 18:25:40 +01:00

You can switch between two scenes with different SketchUp imports. Try to select models in the viewport with different methods. If you would delete e.g. the Ground_Floor and purge the data the Second_Floor seems to be fixed and vice versa.

You can switch between two scenes with different SketchUp imports. Try to select models in the viewport with different methods. If you would delete e.g. the Ground_Floor and purge the data the Second_Floor seems to be fixed and vice versa. ![image.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F14176703/image.png)

Michael Klein commented

2023-01-19 18:28:06 +01:00

Note: The scene contains a lot of Empty parents for the meshes.

Note: The scene contains a lot of Empty parents for the meshes. ![image.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F14176707/image.png)

Steffen Dünner commented

2023-01-19 18:30:06 +01:00

Perfect! The repro file is shocking: Select and delete the first cube (because the cube on the left isn't selectable for ominous reasons) and afterwards selecting the next cube will crash Blender. I can totally confirm it here under Linux and latest master as well.

Michael Klein commented

2023-01-19 18:53:53 +01:00

Some models react on point selection by selecting another model in the Collection.

Some models react on point selection by selecting another model in the Collection. ![image.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F14176792/image.png)

Michael Klein commented

2023-01-19 19:46:15 +01:00

+++ RESEARCH UPDATE +++

I played around by reducing the number of objects in the Blender file across the scenes.

Suspicion: Reducing the number of objects under 30K will fix the issue. It is noticeable that when I reduce the number step by step, more and more cubes are directly selectable and others are not yet.

`+++ RESEARCH UPDATE +++` I played around by reducing the number of objects in the Blender file across the scenes. Suspicion: Reducing the number of objects under 30K will fix the issue. It is noticeable that when I reduce the number step by step, more and more cubes are directly selectable and others are not yet.

Richard Antalik commented

2023-01-19 21:27:04 +01:00

Changed status from 'Needs Triage' to: 'Confirmed'

Richard Antalik commented

2023-01-19 21:30:10 +01:00

Added subscriber: @iss

Richard Antalik commented

2023-01-19 21:30:10 +01:00

Can also reproduce crash

base was nullptr.

>	blender.exe!ED_armature_pose_select_pick_with_buffer(const Scene * scene, ViewLayer * view_layer, View3D * v3d, Base * base, const GPUSelectResult * buffer, const short hits, const SelectPick_Params * params, bool do_nearest) Řádek 257	C

 	blender.exe!ed_object_select_pick(bContext * C, const int * mval, const SelectPick_Params * params, const bool center, const bool enumerate, const bool object_only) Řádek 2693	C++
 	blender.exe!view3d_select_exec(bContext * C, wmOperator * op) Řádek 3061	C++
 	blender.exe!view3d_select_invoke(bContext * C, wmOperator * op, const wmEvent * event) Řádek 3080	C++
 	blender.exe!wm_operator_invoke(bContext * C, wmOperatorType * ot, const wmEvent * event, PointerRNA * properties, ReportList * reports, const bool poll_only, bool use_last_properties) Řádek 1475	C++
 	blender.exe!wm_handler_operator_call(bContext * C, ListBase * handlers, wmEventHandler * handler_base, wmEvent * event, PointerRNA * properties, const char * kmi_idname) Řádek 2506	C++
 	blender.exe!wm_handlers_do_keymap_with_keymap_handler(bContext * C, wmEvent * event, ListBase * handlers, wmEventHandler_Keymap * handler, wmKeyMap * keymap, const bool do_debug_handler) Řádek 2900	C++
 	blender.exe!wm_handlers_do_intern(bContext * C, wmWindow * win, wmEvent * event, ListBase * handlers) Řádek 3226	C++
 	blender.exe!wm_handlers_do(bContext * C, wmEvent * event, ListBase * handlers) Řádek 3481	C++
 	blender.exe!wm_event_do_region_handlers(bContext * C, wmEvent * event, ARegion * region) Řádek 3783	C++
 	blender.exe!wm_event_do_handlers_area_regions(bContext * C, wmEvent * event, ScrArea * area) Řádek 3813	C++
 	blender.exe!wm_event_do_handlers(bContext * C) Řádek 4012	C++
 	blender.exe!WM_main(bContext * C) Řádek 643	C
 	blender.exe!main(int argc, const unsigned char * * UNUSED_argv_c) Řádek 589	C

Can also reproduce crash `base` was `nullptr.` ``` > blender.exe!ED_armature_pose_select_pick_with_buffer(const Scene * scene, ViewLayer * view_layer, View3D * v3d, Base * base, const GPUSelectResult * buffer, const short hits, const SelectPick_Params * params, bool do_nearest) Řádek 257 C blender.exe!ed_object_select_pick(bContext * C, const int * mval, const SelectPick_Params * params, const bool center, const bool enumerate, const bool object_only) Řádek 2693 C++ blender.exe!view3d_select_exec(bContext * C, wmOperator * op) Řádek 3061 C++ blender.exe!view3d_select_invoke(bContext * C, wmOperator * op, const wmEvent * event) Řádek 3080 C++ blender.exe!wm_operator_invoke(bContext * C, wmOperatorType * ot, const wmEvent * event, PointerRNA * properties, ReportList * reports, const bool poll_only, bool use_last_properties) Řádek 1475 C++ blender.exe!wm_handler_operator_call(bContext * C, ListBase * handlers, wmEventHandler * handler_base, wmEvent * event, PointerRNA * properties, const char * kmi_idname) Řádek 2506 C++ blender.exe!wm_handlers_do_keymap_with_keymap_handler(bContext * C, wmEvent * event, ListBase * handlers, wmEventHandler_Keymap * handler, wmKeyMap * keymap, const bool do_debug_handler) Řádek 2900 C++ blender.exe!wm_handlers_do_intern(bContext * C, wmWindow * win, wmEvent * event, ListBase * handlers) Řádek 3226 C++ blender.exe!wm_handlers_do(bContext * C, wmEvent * event, ListBase * handlers) Řádek 3481 C++ blender.exe!wm_event_do_region_handlers(bContext * C, wmEvent * event, ARegion * region) Řádek 3783 C++ blender.exe!wm_event_do_handlers_area_regions(bContext * C, wmEvent * event, ScrArea * area) Řádek 3813 C++ blender.exe!wm_event_do_handlers(bContext * C) Řádek 4012 C++ blender.exe!WM_main(bContext * C) Řádek 643 C blender.exe!main(int argc, const unsigned char * * UNUSED_argv_c) Řádek 589 C ```

Michael Klein commented

2023-01-19 21:48:05 +01:00

+++ RESEARCH UPDATE +++I created a Blender file with a grid of42,001 cubes. Cubes are named from Cube to Cube.42000. I can select all cubes in my scene using point-and-click and Box Select. But Box Select can't select all cubes in one run. I have to do it by selecting a specific number of cubes with Shift over and over again till all cubes are selected. With Lasso Select, I am able to select all cubes in one run. Circle Select works, too, but very laggy.

Try the scene here: Research_30K+_Cubes_v001.blend

Then I save this Blender file to a new name, add another scene, and append the Collection of the first Blender file to this empty scene. Cubes are named from Cube.42001 to Cube.84000. I can select cubes in my scene using point-and-click and Box Select. But just to a specific number and the rest is not selectable anymore. The order is crucial. I can select exactly 26,949 models.

Now I switch to my original scene tab and start to Box Select. But the selection order is corrupted in a fixed pattern. Different cubes will be selected in specific areas. I can finally select 38,585 cubes only. If I delete the second scene and purge the data I can select all 42,001 models with the broken Box Select as before.

Try the scene here: Research_30K+_Cubes_v002_Append.blend

**`+++ RESEARCH UPDATE +++`**I created a Blender file with a grid of**42,001 cubes**. Cubes are named from Cube to Cube.42000. I can select all cubes in my scene using **point-and-click** and **Box Select**. But **Box Select** can't select all cubes in one run. I have to do it by **selecting a specific number of cubes** with **Shift** over and over again till all cubes are selected. With **Lasso Select**, I am able to select all cubes in one run. **Circle Select** works, too, but very laggy. Try the scene here: [Research_30K+_Cubes_v001.blend](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F14177129/Research_30K__Cubes_v001.blend) Then I save this Blender file to a new name, add another scene, and **append** the **Collection** of the first Blender file to this **empty scene**. Cubes are named from Cube.42001 to Cube.84000. I can select cubes in my scene using **point-and-click** and **Box Select**. **But just to a specific number and the rest is not selectable anymore.** The order is crucial. **I can select exactly 26,949 models.** Now I switch to my **original scene tab** and start to **Box Select**. **But the selection order is corrupted in a fixed pattern.** Different cubes will be selected in specific areas. **I can finally select 38,585 cubes only**. If I delete the second scene and purge the data I can select **all 42,001** models with the **broken Box Select** as before. Try the scene here: [Research_30K+_Cubes_v002_Append.blend](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F14177154/Research_30K__Cubes_v002_Append.blend)

Michael Klein commented

2023-01-19 21:49:38 +01:00

Here's a recording of the selection process:

T104008_Blender350_Selection_Bug.mp4

Here's a recording of the selection process: [T104008_Blender350_Selection_Bug.mp4](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F14177156/T104008_Blender350_Selection_Bug.mp4)

Iliya Katushenock commented

2023-01-19 21:54:03 +01:00

Just for reference, the reason for the selection limit blender/documentation#102485 (Box selection, tool or B key, doesn't select more than 5K objects)

Michael Klein changed title from ~~Mesh selection issue in viewport with complex scenes~~ to Mesh selection issue in viewport with scenes using a high number of models

2023-01-19 23:07:28 +01:00

Michael Klein commented

2023-01-25 16:24:05 +01:00

I am actually struggling with our project because the selection bug (not the 5K limit) is a serious showstopper in our case. The viewport becomes useless when you can't pick meshes. I know that our amount of objects is unusual but it's good that this showed up the bug.

Michael Klein commented

2023-01-26 16:23:49 +01:00

Here's a better debug scene with 125,000 objects (1 cube, 124,999 linked). This bug should be flagged as a critical showstopper. At a specific number of elements, Blender becomes useless because it's impossible to select the right object in the viewport.

T104008_Selection_Bug_350_125K_Cubes_v001.blend

Here's a better debug scene with 125,000 objects (1 cube, 124,999 linked). This bug should be flagged as a critical showstopper. At a specific number of elements, Blender becomes useless because it's impossible to select the right object in the viewport. [T104008_Selection_Bug_350_125K_Cubes_v001.blend](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F14200742/T104008_Selection_Bug_350_125K_Cubes_v001.blend)

Michael Klein commented

2023-01-26 16:28:25 +01:00

For the debug scene "T104008_Selection_Bug_350_125K_Cubes_v001.blend" I have created a movie to show the corrupted data management when trying to box or click select cubes.

T104008_Selection_Bug_350_125K_Cubes_v001.mp4

For the debug scene "T104008_Selection_Bug_350_125K_Cubes_v001.blend" I have created a movie to show the corrupted data management when trying to box or click select cubes. [T104008_Selection_Bug_350_125K_Cubes_v001.mp4](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F14200746/T104008_Selection_Bug_350_125K_Cubes_v001.mp4)

Jeroen Bakker commented

2023-01-26 16:55:04 +01:00

Added subscriber: @Jeroen-Bakker

Jeroen Bakker commented

2023-01-26 16:55:04 +01:00

Does it help disabling gpu selection in the user preferences? Gpu selection has some limitations when handling scenes. With a large number of objects.

Steffen Dünner commented

2023-01-26 17:03:01 +01:00

@Jeroen-Bakker If you mean "GPU Depth Picking" then no, it doesn't help. I already tried that.

I also tried running "blender-softwaregl" under Linux and it also doesn't improve the situation.

@Jeroen-Bakker If you mean "GPU Depth Picking" then no, it doesn't help. I already tried that. I also tried running "blender-softwaregl" under Linux and it also doesn't improve the situation.

Michael Klein commented

2023-01-26 23:45:41 +01:00

Blender can handle 214K of linked object data pretty nicely on my XMG NEO laptop with RTX 3080. It's just the selection issue that kills my project actually. Someone said that this looks like a limitation by 16-bit integer (65536). The figure is consistent with my observation.

blender_uOxJ4wo16B.mp4

Blender can handle 214K of linked object data pretty nicely on my XMG NEO laptop with RTX 3080. It's just the selection issue that kills my project actually. Someone said that this looks like a limitation by 16-bit integer (65536). The figure is consistent with my observation. [blender_uOxJ4wo16B.mp4](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F14201460/blender_uOxJ4wo16B.mp4)

Iliya Katushenock commented

2023-01-26 23:49:53 +01:00

I would suggest that you consider using geometry nodes and representing all of these things as points in a mesh. With their subsequent instantiation. Although typing by writing a type index into an attribute would not yet be so convenient.
In any case, this is in case of further problems with the report.

I would suggest that you consider using geometry nodes and representing all of these things as points in a mesh. With their subsequent instantiation. Although typing by writing a type index into an attribute would not yet be so convenient. In any case, this is in case of further problems with the report.

Michael Klein commented

2023-01-27 01:35:19 +01:00

In #104008#1480174, @mod_moder wrote:
I would suggest that you consider using geometry nodes and representing all of these things as points in a mesh. With their subsequent instantiation. Although typing by writing a type index into an attribute would not yet be so convenient.
In any case, this is in case of further problems with the report.

My cubes scene was created for debugging to reproduce the issues of my retail shop interior scene. We import SketchUp scenes with up to 106K objects incl. Empty objects and have to go through the meshes by material selection and create instances of the same mesh type to lower the polygon count for GPU rendering and better viewport performance. But for this, we need to select the objects directly in the viewport. And this is broken when the scene exceeds 65K objects. There is no workflow for geocodes and we have to replace the meshes a couple of times with newer Sketchup updates in the interior design process.

> In #104008#1480174, @mod_moder wrote: > I would suggest that you consider using geometry nodes and representing all of these things as points in a mesh. With their subsequent instantiation. Although typing by writing a type index into an attribute would not yet be so convenient. > In any case, this is in case of further problems with the report. My cubes scene was created for debugging to reproduce the issues of my retail shop interior scene. We import SketchUp scenes with up to 106K objects incl. Empty objects and have to go through the meshes by material selection and create instances of the same mesh type to lower the polygon count for GPU rendering and better viewport performance. But for this, we need to select the objects directly in the viewport. And this is broken when the scene exceeds 65K objects. There is no workflow for geocodes and we have to replace the meshes a couple of times with newer Sketchup updates in the interior design process.

Michael Klein changed title from ~~Mesh selection issue in viewport with scenes using a high number of models~~ to Mesh selection in viewport broken with scenes using a high number of models

2023-02-07 09:44:05 +01:00

Philipp Oeser removed the

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Mesh selection in viewport broken with scenes using a high number of models #104008