"File Open" dialogue enumerates Windows junction points #23261

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Andrew McDonald · 2010-08-10T18:47:52+02:00

Andrew McDonald commented

2010-08-10 18:47:52 +02:00

%%%The "File -> Open" (and Save As, Import etc.) dialogue boxes in Blender 2.53 Beta display too many items. They're enumerating folder junctions in addition to normal folders. This can cause user confusion in the dialogue. See attached screenshot.

Such junctions are only intended for backwards compatibility with older programs, because Microsoft has moved the user subfolder locations over time - Pictures, Music etc. used to be in My Documents, but aren't any more. They've also been renamed, hence "AppData" and "Application Data" both appearing. They're only supposed to be used when a (naughty) program has hard-coded a path instead of using SHGetFolderPath or similar, and I don't think are intended for display to the user.

Discovered using Blender 2.53 Beta, x64 package, on Windows 7 Ultimate x64.%%%

%%%The "File -> Open" (and Save As, Import etc.) dialogue boxes in Blender 2.53 Beta display too many items. They're enumerating folder junctions in addition to normal folders. This can cause user confusion in the dialogue. See attached screenshot. Such junctions are only intended for backwards compatibility with older programs, because Microsoft has moved the user subfolder locations over time - Pictures, Music etc. used to be in My Documents, but aren't any more. They've also been renamed, hence "AppData" and "Application Data" both appearing. They're only supposed to be used when a (naughty) program has hard-coded a path instead of using SHGetFolderPath or similar, and I don't think are intended for display to the user. Discovered using Blender 2.53 Beta, x64 package, on Windows 7 Ultimate x64.%%%

Andrew McDonald commented

2010-08-10 18:47:52 +02:00

Changed status to: 'Open'

Campbell Barton commented

2010-08-11 04:48:17 +02:00

%%%assigning to Nathan%%%

Mariusz Maximus commented

2010-08-12 11:12:53 +02:00

%%%Is not a bug, it's a feature.

I want see all folders,
if I enable display hidden folders blender should
display hidden folders (junctions) too ?

Mayby blender should read from registry settings (for folders)
and display hidden/system folders if user it want ???%%%

%%%Is not a bug, it's a feature. I want see all folders, if I enable display hidden folders blender should display hidden folders (junctions) too ? Mayby blender should read from registry settings (for folders) and display hidden/system folders if user it want ???%%%

Brecht Van Lommel commented

2010-08-12 13:15:45 +02:00

%%%The problem here seems to be that we support hiding Unix style .files, but don't check for hidden file flags on Windows. Would be a useful feature to add, but not considering this a bug, the tooltip mentions it's specifically for . files now.%%%

Andrew McDonald commented

2010-08-12 19:17:23 +02:00

%%%No, isn't to do with "hidden" items. Junctions are not hidden folders. They're fake paths designed for redirecting old badly-written apps which reference hard-coded directory names.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/930128

For instance, both "Application Data" and "AppData" are present in the Blender box. Hidden files were indeed set hidden in the Explorer box in my shot; but if they weren't you still wouldn't see Application Data. You would only see it if you show hidden files and if you set Windows to display Hidden/System items ("protected operating system files" in Folder Options). Even doing this is of no practical use in this dialogue box, because they're just shortcuts to elsewhere.

The fact that the dialogue checks for hidden files by looking for the period is also a bug IMO, because it's not how Windows tags things "hidden". But again, that's completely separate from this - hidden files and junction points are completely separate ideas. But at least the tooltip does say this (although "hidden dot files" will mean absolutely nothing to the average Windows user.)%%%

%%%No, isn't to do with "hidden" items. Junctions are not hidden folders. They're fake paths designed for redirecting old badly-written apps which reference hard-coded directory names. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/930128 For instance, both "Application Data" and "AppData" are present in the Blender box. Hidden files were indeed set hidden in the Explorer box in my shot; but if they weren't you still wouldn't see Application Data. You would only see it if you show hidden files *and* if you set Windows to display Hidden/System items ("protected operating system files" in Folder Options). Even doing this is of no practical use in this dialogue box, because they're just shortcuts to elsewhere. The fact that the dialogue checks for hidden files by looking for the period is also a bug IMO, because it's not how Windows tags things "hidden". But again, that's completely separate from this - hidden files and junction points are completely separate ideas. But at least the tooltip does say this (although "hidden dot files" will mean absolutely nothing to the average Windows user.)%%%

Brecht Van Lommel commented

2010-08-12 19:25:43 +02:00

%%%To me it seems that these junction points are just like symlinks, and set to hidden by default. They should not necessarily be hidden because they are junction points, as I understand it you can create junction points for other reasons too, just as you might create symlinks on other filesystems.%%%

Andrew McDonald commented

2010-08-12 19:55:29 +02:00

%%%That's true; advanced users might create them. But on Windows, a "shortcut" is overwhelmingly used for that instead. For instance, there's no way to create junctions through the Windows UI.

Playing with _findfirst (MSVC runtime) and FindFirstFile (Win32 runtime), it seems they both enumerate junctions as well as hidden/system items regardless of the user's current setting. It's up to the app to filter them as needed. Those particular junctions I brought up are only invisible most of the time because they're both "hidden" and "system" (user-created junctions presumably wouldn't be.)

So probably it should be as Mariusz suggests: check the current Windows user settings and filter as appropriate. Then the behaviour would match standard Win32 dialogue boxes as used in other programs. (Side rants: I wish Blender would just standard OS dialogue boxese here!) I'm not sure how you query those Windows settings though :-)%%%

%%%That's true; advanced users might create them. But on Windows, a "shortcut" is overwhelmingly used for that instead. For instance, there's no way to create junctions through the Windows UI. Playing with _findfirst (MSVC runtime) and FindFirstFile (Win32 runtime), it seems they both enumerate junctions as well as hidden/system items regardless of the user's current setting. It's up to the app to filter them as needed. Those particular junctions I brought up are only invisible most of the time because they're both "hidden" and "system" (user-created junctions presumably wouldn't be.) So probably it should be as Mariusz suggests: check the current Windows user settings and filter as appropriate. Then the behaviour would match standard Win32 dialogue boxes as used in other programs. (Side rants: I wish Blender would just standard OS dialogue boxese here!) I'm not sure how you query those Windows settings though :-)%%%

Mariusz Maximus commented

2010-08-12 21:10:53 +02:00

%%%If you want create junction in exlorer.exe shell
you shoud use "Link shell extension"

http://schinagl.priv.at/nt/hardlinkshellext/hardlinkshellext.html

I think user should have option

use standard windows/linux dialog
or use blender dialog

In windows is very simple use standard explorer listview to display icons
%%%

%%%If you want create junction in exlorer.exe shell you shoud use "Link shell extension" http://schinagl.priv.at/nt/hardlinkshellext/hardlinkshellext.html I think user should have option - use standard windows/linux dialog - or use blender dialog In windows is very simple use standard explorer listview to display icons %%%

Nathan Letwory commented

2010-08-14 00:37:04 +02:00

%%%These junction points also show always in Explorer. These junctions have never worked on my Windows 7 machines :/ Always throw some error message. For me both Explorer and Blender filebrowser show the same things - I haven't changed explorer settings other than always showing extensions. I wasn't aware junction could be hidden too (and don't know yet where, either).

Anyway, I'll try looking into this, although I'm inclined in leaving current behaviour as is.%%%

%%%These junction points also show always in Explorer. These junctions have never worked on my Windows 7 machines :/ Always throw some error message. For me both Explorer and Blender filebrowser show the same things - I haven't changed explorer settings other than always showing extensions. I wasn't aware junction could be hidden too (and don't know yet where, either). Anyway, I'll try looking into this, although I'm inclined in leaving current behaviour as is.%%%

Nomis Animations commented

2010-08-17 10:49:06 +02:00

%%%I think they should not be completely hidden, but there should be some kind of information that they are not actual folders. This could be made through showing them with colored text, for example black text is normal folder, blue is hidden folder, orange is junction. So you could check "show hidden" "show junctions", but you could also know which folders are what type...

(By the way, these Junctions don´t work on my pc, i just get error messages.)%%%

%%%I think they should not be completely hidden, but there should be some kind of information that they are not actual folders. This could be made through showing them with colored text, for example black text is normal folder, blue is hidden folder, orange is junction. So you could check "show hidden" "show junctions", but you could also know which folders are what type... (By the way, these Junctions don´t work on my pc, i just get error messages.)%%%

Nathan Letwory commented

2010-09-16 00:01:52 +02:00

%%%Moving to our todo list on wiki: http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Dev:2.5/Source/Development/Todo/Simple_Todos#Filebrowser%%%

Nathan Letwory commented

2010-09-16 00:01:52 +02:00

Changed status from 'Open' to: 'Archived'

Nathan Letwory closed this issue

2010-09-16 00:01:52 +02:00

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"File Open" dialogue enumerates Windows junction points #23261