Condense transform tools into object properties #37728

New Issue

Scott Petrovic · 2013-12-07T18:13:39+01:00

Scott Petrovic commented

2013-12-07 18:13:39 +01:00

Would anyone be opposed if I moved the transform settings to be in one spot. The settings area is more condensed, so I would move that to the properties area.

It doesn't seem like a good use of space to have the same information in two close spots.

Thoughts?

Would anyone be opposed if I moved the transform settings to be in one spot. The settings area is more condensed, so I would move that to the properties area. It doesn't seem like a good use of space to have the same information in two close spots. Thoughts? ![move-duplicate_transform-info.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F37325/move-duplicate_transform-info.png)

Scott Petrovic commented

2013-12-07 18:13:39 +01:00

Changed status to: 'Open'

Scott Petrovic commented

2013-12-07 18:13:39 +01:00

Added subscriber: @scottyp

Brecht Van Lommel commented

2013-12-07 23:43:55 +01:00

Changed status from 'Open' to: 'Archived'

Brecht Van Lommel closed this issue

2013-12-07 23:43:55 +01:00

Brecht Van Lommel self-assigned this 2013-12-07 23:43:55 +01:00

Brecht Van Lommel commented

2013-12-07 23:43:55 +01:00

The 3D view panel supports editing multiple objects which the properties editor does not. So we can't remove these until that works. It's a bigger discussion that needs a design on the wiki I think, also for handling armature bones, meshes, curves, etc.

Scott Petrovic commented

2013-12-08 14:28:07 +01:00

I just tested this out and they appear to be doing exactly the same thing. The lock options update each other when they are changed as well. I am not clear on how the transform tools are different. If they are, the UI doesn't isn't communicating it.

Brecht Van Lommel commented

2013-12-09 07:52:44 +01:00

Changed status from 'Archived' to: 'Open'

Brecht Van Lommel reopened this issue

2013-12-09 07:52:44 +01:00

Brecht Van Lommel commented

2013-12-09 07:52:44 +01:00

Oh, I thought there was multi object transform editing here, but it seems there isn't.

Personally I wouldn't mind removing these but I remember in 2.5 development that people kept asking for these in the 3D view, and that they were eventually added back because so many people requested it. It's not ideal to have this information duplicated but somehow people seem to like having this in the 3D view without having to browse the properties editor.

Oh, I thought there was multi object transform editing here, but it seems there isn't. Personally I wouldn't mind removing these but I remember in 2.5 development that people kept asking for these in the 3D view, and that they were eventually added back because so many people requested it. It's not ideal to have this information duplicated but somehow people seem to like having this in the 3D view without having to browse the properties editor.

Brecht Van Lommel removed their assignment 2013-12-09 07:52:57 +01:00

Brecht Van Lommel commented

2013-12-09 07:52:57 +01:00

Added subscribers: @JonathanWilliamson, @billrey

Scott Petrovic commented

2013-12-09 16:18:02 +01:00

I see. Maybe this is a larger discussion for later on what needs to happen. I have noticed some conflict between what goes in the 3D View settings and the properties space. They seem to have an ambiguous relationship currently. I also see other things repeated like naming the object in both places.

If convenience is that important, we might need to think about object properties getting their own space to manage object related functions. Right now, the properties space is getting pretty overloaded with functionality. This would be 2.7x territory though.

I see. Maybe this is a larger discussion for later on what needs to happen. I have noticed some conflict between what goes in the 3D View settings and the properties space. They seem to have an ambiguous relationship currently. I also see other things repeated like naming the object in both places. If convenience is that important, we might need to think about object properties getting their own space to manage object related functions. Right now, the properties space is getting pretty overloaded with functionality. This would be 2.7x territory though.

Jonathan Williamson commented

2013-12-09 16:34:08 +01:00

I agree that these should probably be unified, but also that it's part of a larger issue. Personally I think this would best be resolved with undockable panels, as that would allows us to keep the options all in the properties area, but also to pop them out to the 3D View if desired: #37424

William Reynish commented

2013-12-09 18:02:54 +01:00

Yes, I'd like to see these duplicated things removed too. The same goes for the Item panel, which is also the same as the name field in the properties.

The only thing that's unique to the 3D View Transform panel is the Dimensions, which is an alternate way to set the scale values. We could add the Dimensions to the Object properties by having a menu to select between Scale/Dimensions, lust like the Rotation Mode menu.

So, to recap:

Remove Transform and Item panels from 3D View
Add menu under Rotation Mode to select between Scale/Dimensions

Yes, I'd like to see these duplicated things removed too. The same goes for the Item panel, which is also the same as the name field in the properties. The only thing that's unique to the 3D View Transform panel is the Dimensions, which is an alternate way to set the scale values. We could add the Dimensions to the Object properties by having a menu to select between Scale/Dimensions, lust like the Rotation Mode menu. So, to recap: - Remove Transform and Item panels from 3D View - Add menu under Rotation Mode to select between Scale/Dimensions

Jonathan Williamson commented

2013-12-09 18:32:48 +01:00

@billrey, yes I think that's all.

I suspect many people won't like this, as it makes the transform panel harder to get to, but I really don't Object specific items should be in the Viewport Properties. I believe the viewport properties should be focused on things that affect the whole viewport (such as shading mode, grid settings, etc), not specific items.

@billrey, yes I think that's all. I suspect many people won't like this, as it makes the transform panel harder to get to, but I really don't Object specific items should be in the Viewport Properties. I believe the viewport properties should be focused on things that affect the whole viewport (such as shading mode, grid settings, etc), not specific items.

William Reynish commented

2013-12-09 23:49:30 +01:00

Here's a layout mockup of a design that could accommodate the Dimensions controls inside the Object Properties:

An alternative, clearer and more compact version:

Here's a layout mockup of a design that could accommodate the Dimensions controls inside the Object Properties: ![transform_scale_mode.jpg](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F37986/transform_scale_mode.jpg) An alternative, clearer and more compact version: ![transform_scale_mode2.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F37989/transform_scale_mode2.png)

William Reynish commented

2013-12-10 16:24:03 +01:00

More thinking: I remember why we kept this panel for 2.5.

The main issue with the idea of removing Transform panel from the 3D View is that it is in fact needed for Edit mode. There's no Vertex Properties in the Properties editor, so instead users can use the 3d View Properties to find the location of the selective vertices.

We could remove the panel in Object mode, but then it becomes inconsistent with Edit mode. Or we could remove these items from the Object Properties, but that's not very hie either as these are clearly basic object properties related to the object datablock.

Can't really think of a great solution within the current paradigm.

It still might be nice to be able to specify Object Dimensions in the Object properties though. And the 'Item' panel I think should be removed.

More thinking: I remember why we kept this panel for 2.5. The main issue with the idea of removing Transform panel from the 3D View is that it is in fact needed for Edit mode. There's no Vertex Properties in the Properties editor, so instead users can use the 3d View Properties to find the location of the selective vertices. We could remove the panel in Object mode, but then it becomes inconsistent with Edit mode. Or we could remove these items from the Object Properties, but that's not very hie either as these are clearly basic object properties related to the object datablock. Can't really think of a great solution within the current paradigm. It still might be nice to be able to specify Object Dimensions in the Object properties though. And the 'Item' panel I think should be removed.

Jonathan Williamson commented

2013-12-10 16:27:56 +01:00

@billrey the Edit Mode issue is a good point and definitely a rough spot. With that in mind, I suggest we let this one mull for a while. Keep thinking on it.

Scott Petrovic commented

2013-12-10 17:33:41 +01:00

These transform properties seem to be doing a lot. Maybe the object properties isn't the best place for this. It is used in quite a few contexts outside of just object properties (edit, multiple selections, other?). It is obviously confusing people, including me, about what it does.

I think this goes back to creating better separation between areas with new spaces, or un-dockable panels. Things could be organized better instead of putting things in larger buckets.

These transform properties seem to be doing a lot. Maybe the object properties isn't the best place for this. It is used in quite a few contexts outside of just object properties (edit, multiple selections, other?). It is obviously confusing people, including me, about what it does. I think this goes back to creating better separation between areas with new spaces, or un-dockable panels. Things could be organized better instead of putting things in larger buckets.

William Reynish commented

2013-12-10 20:51:59 +01:00

@scottyp: I'm afraid I didn't get any of that. What was your point?

Scott Petrovic commented

2013-12-10 21:43:07 +01:00

@billrey: the main point is that this tools is more complex than what is shown. Condensing the tool to one area isn't going to fix the fundamental issue. It needs to communicate better with what it is doing based off of the context (selecting one object, selecting multiple objects, etc).

Warren Bahler commented

2013-12-13 17:42:20 +01:00

Added subscriber: @WarrenBahler

Warren Bahler commented

2013-12-13 17:42:20 +01:00

could implementing tabs in the 3d view properties panel be a valid solution? I did a rough mockup on the wiki a while back that demonstrated some possible organization; although some of the ideas there have been improved on already:

http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Dev:Ref/Proposals/UI/Tabbing_Editor_Side_Panels_for_Better_Organization

I think this would be be a logical extension of #37601

could implementing tabs in the 3d view properties panel be a valid solution? I did a rough mockup on the wiki a while back that demonstrated some possible organization; although some of the ideas there have been improved on already: http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Dev:Ref/Proposals/UI/Tabbing_Editor_Side_Panels_for_Better_Organization I think this would be be a logical extension of #37601

William Reynish commented

2013-12-15 12:32:42 +01:00

@WarrenBahler

No I think that's unrelated. Adding more layers of complexity to hide stuff is not really a solution. And more specifically, the tabs that stick out of the area it's related to seems confusing as wasting space

@WarrenBahler No I think that's unrelated. Adding more layers of complexity to hide stuff is not really a solution. And more specifically, the tabs that stick out of the area it's related to seems confusing as wasting space

Diego Gangl commented

2014-06-29 01:34:59 +02:00

Added subscriber: @Januz

Brecht Van Lommel commented

2018-10-31 14:29:02 +01:00

Changed status from 'Open' to: 'Archived'

Brecht Van Lommel closed this issue

2018-10-31 14:29:02 +01:00

Brecht Van Lommel self-assigned this 2018-10-31 14:29:02 +01:00

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Condense transform tools into object properties #37728