Translations (how to handle, design task) #43083
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Reference: blender/blender-manual#43083
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Current Status
We need to formalize how to handle translations. Follow up on http://lists.blender.org/pipermail/bf-docboard/2014-November/004600.html.
Translation Workflow
The sphinx-intl project is well supported and has been tested to work with a snapshot of the Blender-Manual.
Rather than having multiple separate manuals, we would instead maintain translated strings (common for translating applications).
See:
sphinx-intl
https://pypi.python.org/pypi/sphinx-intlbasic workflow is:
Web Based Translation Software (currently not in use)
Eventually, we may want to look into using web-based translation software.
Some existing software exists:
Changed status to: 'Open'
#43103 was marked as duplicate of this issue
Added subscriber: @Sergey
Added subscribers: @GabrielGazzan, @fsiddi, @ideasman42
ok, thanks for redirecting this one. :)
I'll start here again:
v2.73: "Help --> Manual" goes to a new manual with no translations
I understand this is a new (under development) version of the Blender manual and that in the long run it will be better.
But right now the fact is that we (non-English users) are losing an old translated manual in favor of a new English-only manual.
I (as a Blender instructor) am not happy with it.
There's no way now for unexperienced non-English users to easily access localized help.
Perhaps, in the mean time, a solution woud be to have a home page in that new Manual, with a clear route back to the previous translated versions of the manual?
Thanks!
This comment was removed by @ideasman42
How to handle translationsto Translations (how to handle, design task)Added subscriber: @dindoun
hi,
Really a bad old news.
I can't always be in english manuals.
Sometimes I need to translate a text before understanding it.
We have waited for months, now change your politics.
Thanks.
Added subscriber: @slone
Hello,
Have some thoughts about documentation handle:
Hope this will be helpful.
@slone. Sphinx provides a translation system already - I've tested it and it works well as far as I could tell,
I think we just need to start using, with someone who's prepared to be the first person to hit any issues we might run into.
This isn't about politics, the English manual was being heavily edited, pages removed/moved/split/merged, so having translations keep up with this would have been problematic.
I think we're slowing down on this - so we could trial translating some chapters now.
Ok, I see. If I can help to this somehow I will be glad.
One more thought about translation proccess:
It is very difficult to understand something when we have to do many actions and searches to translate something. It is difficult to find what to translate at all. So for newbie it is hard to envolve in this proccess in double measure.
I'm not expirienced in Sphinx but probably it is a tool that can help. These thoughts I have from my php-programming experience and usability considerations.
@slone:
Some web based translation is possible, projects exist, noted in original post.
But setting these up takes some investigation, we can do it, but this needs to be configured to our own needs.
Probably to begin with we will just use SVN directly, and after that works on a basic level, investigate online options.
Added subscriber: @matthewrbowker
Added subscriber: @Libellul
Hi,
I am willing to translate the manual in french. So I updated the makefile to make things easier. See :
377e8fb329
for translating in french you have to do
That's it you have you manual translated and builded.
Since I want to do my translation, I'll do it on my github. It won't be hard to port it to the subversion repository.
Anyway I will keep you in touch from any problem I'll encounter
Hi, @Libellul, We'll be looking to add the translation repository soon (next few days... end of next week latest).
Update, committed initial French translations to: https://developer.blender.org/diffusion/BMT
@Libellul, I've added you to the documentation project so you can commit changes to this repo.
Hey there Cambo, there seems to be someone willing to translate to Russian and Ukrainian. How do we proceed in this case? Simply add a
ru
directory in the repo?Hi Campbell I can't commit my changes to the documentation repo
@Libellul, to handle issues with commit access, best do this via IRC (#blenderwiki on freenode) or the bf-docboard mailing list.
Post there what errors your seeing and we can try to resolve.
(Rather keep this task for feedback on translation process, troubleshooting individual users commit access here is off topic).
Added subscriber: @anfelor
Added subscriber: @sklimkin
Hello, Campbell!
I want to take part in the translation of documentation into Russian.
But I can't commit changes documentation repo.
Hi,
I wanted to know if we can regenerate the po files for our language. I stumbled upon a page where strings have changed and it's a bit frustrating.
I have also a suggestion
It would be nice to have tool using git/svn blame to keep track of outdated translations.
I think it's better to have a partial but updated documentation than the opposite.
I don't know anything about python but if there's really nobody who want to do this job I'll take a look
But maybe I'm wrong and there's a simplier way to track outdated translations
Added subscriber: @Blendify
Who should be responsible for doing these normal? Documentors or Translators?
Hey @sklimkin, I've added you to the documentation project, so you can now commit PO files (and edits to the manual too) using subversion.
@Libellul, I run an update on the PO files around ~weekly, the manual isn't changing so fast that this is normally a problem. (committed update),
To do this yourself, see:
https://www.blender.org/manual/about/translations.html#updating-po-files
@Blendify, Anyone can do this, however it may be a hassle to setup, so I don't mind to do it weekly.
Hi,
I thought I had outdated po file but I was wrong.
The file concerned is getting_started/installing_blender/installing.po
https://developer.blender.org/diffusion/BMT/browse/trunk/blender_docs/locale/fr/LC_MESSAGES/getting_started/installing_blender/installing.po;69$67
At this line msgid tell us we sould find the string "Daily Build" at line ~32 in the documentation file.
And here is the line in the documentation (which hasn't bee updated since 09/15/2015)
https://developer.blender.org/diffusion/BM/browse/trunk/blender_docs/manual/getting_started/installing_blender/installing.rst;1018$31
"
Latest Stable Release <http://www.blender.org/download/>
__"If I update the pos files following exacty the instructions of blender documentation I get the string
msgid "
Latest Stable Release <http://www.blender.org/download/>
__"Good !
But what about the next time you update the po files won't the "wrongs msgid" be merged, replacing the good one ?
@Libellul, not sure what you mean - merging changed can be problematic - but in general updating the PO files shouldn't be causing continual errors, or this would be an unusable system.
I've updated the PO files since your post,
if you see an update that causes problems - let us know.
@ideasman42, Don't mind the merge problems it's a misunderstanding.
You have updated the PO File but it did not updated the mentioned string
Here is what I understand :
In the install.po I have this line :https:*developer.blender.org/diffusion/BMT/browse/trunk/blender_docs/locale/ru/LC_MESSAGES/getting_started/installing_blender/installing.po;89$89 it does not match the string in https:*developer.blender.org/diffusion/BM/browse/trunk/blender_docs/manual/getting_started/installing_blender/installing.rst;1018$31
If I Translate this string and build the manual the string stay in English which is predictable.
If I update po files I get the good string : https://developer.blender.org/diffusion/BMT/browse/trunk/blender_docs/locale/fr/LC_MESSAGES/getting_started/installing_blender/installing.po;89$155
If I translate the string and build the manual again the string is translated.
What I do not understand :
Guess what ? It worked
I think I'll wait for your next repositories update and do as the German team. But I think there is definitely a bug and it's not on my computer
Sorry for the annoyance
@Libellul, I ('the german team') didn't realize it, when I translated it;
but you're definitely right (and it isn't just you):
The msgid should contain hyperlink, but doesn't.
Direct (visual) comparison:
https://www.blender.org/manual/getting_started/installing_blender/installing.html#download-blender
https://www.blender.org/manual/de/getting_started/installing_blender/installing.html#download-blender
The English version has three hyperlinks, the German only one.
Merry Christmas everyone,
Anton Felix Lorenzen
Added subscriber: @xuekepei
Hi, I've started the chinese translate process for four or five months.
The work flow is : sphinx-build -b gettext produce pot then sphinx-intl update produce po file, then distrubute po file for someone translate then collection them to build html . I'v enconter so many problem and solved,especially the old sphinx-intl can't distinguish changed url item give me a new item in po, but the new one change the exist item and mark then as fuzzy item. this can reduce my work load.
Question is could I upload po files to repository and how. then can automatic build htmls.
I use sphinx-build -b html -D language="zh_CN" to build html.
thanks.
@anfelor, @xuekepei - if theres problems, please report bugs to: https:github.com/sphinx-doc/sphinx-intl(noting them here is fine too, but best make reports to have them fixed).//
I reported the bug I mentioned to sphinx-intl and it has been fix.
Also what software do you use for translating ?
And Have you any feedback to do about it ?
@Libellul could you give a link to that report you made thanks
sure :
https://github.com/sphinx-doc/sphinx/issues/2198
Thanks
@ideasman42 did the issue with zh_CN get fixed?
@Libellul we updated to Spinx 1.3.4 you can update yours by running
pip install -r requirements.txt
Then runpip install -r requirements.txt --upgrade
Does every thing work currently now?Make sure you update SVN also
@Blendify : short answer yes
long answer :
It's ready for translation !
Hello
I need help
I'd like to translate but each time I try I fail
I'm on linux, I use poedit
I translated manual/advanced/index.rst
I have an index.po ( http://dindoun.free.fr/DIVERS/index.po )
To install i did that:
svn checkout https://svn.blender.org/svnroot/bf-manual/trunk/blender_docs
cd blender_docs
pip install -r requirements.txt
pip install -r requirements.txt --upgrade
make
svn update
svn checkout https://svn.blender.org/svnroot/bf-manual-translations/trunk/blender_docs/locale/fr locale/fr
svn update
change the .po
make gettext
sphinx-intl update -p build/locale -l fr
sphinx-intl build
make -e SPHINXOPTS="-D language='fr'"
I probably made 1 or 2 more make
please mp to dindoun at free.fr
I try this :
svn commit locale/fr/LC_MESSAGES/advanced/index.po -m "advanced" --username "dindoun"
it seems to work :) . Do I have to wait for something or commit the .mo too?
Another thing : I'd like to help for the python scripting help
Your commit made it through see https://developer.blender.org/rBMT255
No these are made from the server side and your page is translated https://www.blender.org/manual/fr/advanced/index.html
Ok , thanks.
Now I'm ready for the translation.
It worked, but
It seems to have now errors I don't understand :
this : https://www.blender.org/manual/fr/physics/force_fields/introduction.html exists
but on this https://developer.blender.org/diffusion/BMT/browse/trunk/blender_docs/locale/fr/LC_MESSAGES/physics/ I can't see force_fields
PS
when I read, if I see errors in English : what must I do?
You also have commit rights to the English versions. As for the other issue I do not see anything wrong. Maybe @ideasman42 can help
There was an error in the translation updating script, new directories weren't being added to svn. Fixed rBM1682. rBMT262.
Thanks
it seems to work :)
few things :
I have a probleme with this ligne :
"
A detailed guide that covers every setting with images and examples <https://www.miikahweb.com/en/articles/dynamic-paint-guide>
__ (Currently not up-to-date)"in
locale/fr/LC_MESSAGES/physics/dynamic_paint/brush.po
poedit always say "double définition de message" ( ~ duplicate message definition ) but all work .
On the blender interface in french , the translation is not finished.
To be useful, I use in my traduction, the terms I see in the interface ( the same title even if it is approximatif )
Is there a way to automatically put the terms of the interface in the traduction ( so if they change in the interface they will be changed in the manual )?
What must I do to put a reference to the french images ( with the french traduction in the images ? )
I tried a directory blender_docs/locale/fr/LC_MESSAGES/images/ with
blender_docs/locale/fr/LC_MESSAGES/images/physics_dynamic-paint_brush.jpg for
blender_docs/manual/images/physics_dynamic-paint_brush.jpg
but I see english images in the french traduction
Following the force_fields :
I can't commit the files : it says
I tried a
and the commit says :
Not sure what is wrong. I would try:
svn cleanup
hi ,
still doesn t work
but I'm not sure of update your branch : I just update with svn update
I'm not sure I did
as proposed in https://www.blender.org/manual/about/translations/contribute.html#translations-fuzzy-strings
It works but I had to destroy my directory avec make another one
Maybe useful : my command line in linux ( after I've translated a po with poedit ) to see french traduction in local network
then to see french traduction on blender.org
Hi
what must I do when Isee errors in the translate in frence interface?
For example in "Baking Physics Simulations" (baking.po) we can find the traduction of light as lumière(not dark)
but in french we have to say léger (not heavy) .
And badder the traduction of Heavy is Compact !
You will have to update your local SVN
These are updated with the a script. You can either do them yourself or wait for @ideasman42 to update them.
see also: https://www.blender.org/manual/about/translations/contribute.html#updating-po-files
I do not know if this is exactly what you are asking. If there is an error you can fix it and commit the change.
I'm a newbie in svn
I have always errors on my local base and I must sometimes delete all the directory and then I must download all the files to be sure. But after that it works.
Sometimes I read and translate things which should not be there. For exemple on https://www.blender.org/manual/fr/physics/introduction.html they were something about mars to delete in the english .rst and so on my french .po. ( someone has seen it )
May/must I change it on the original .rst ? I thought it was for another project or "team".
Maybe I could say it to someone each time.
Sometimes I translate words from the interface which are not the good translated words ( or simply I don't agree ) but if I use the good one ( my good one ) it will be different from the interface.
Maybe I could say it to someone each time.
when someone changes a .rst ( like the one on mars ) nothing say it to me. Is there a way to know it automatically ( with svn I suppose?)
This sounds like you are looking to use
svn revert
. If you are new to SVN and not good at using a command line version, I recommend using a SVN client with a graphical interface. For example, I am on windows and have two clients installed. One is a basic command line tool and the other is Smart SVNIf you have the original RST files you also have commit rights to that repository. Simply follow the contributing to the manual guide:
https://www.blender.org/manual/about/contribute.html
I would use whatever the translated interface says.
I just pay attention to https://developer.blender.org/audit/query/ji9F0ABm_HOP/#R
Added subscriber: @alvlapo
I want to take part in the translation of documentation into Russian. But I can't commit changes documentation repo. Please add me to the documentation project.
I added you. Username and password are the same has what you used on this website.
Changed status from 'Open' to: 'Resolved'
Marking as resolved, for the most part, we have the workflow together. If people are interested in joining the project please follow the steps on #documentation and email the mailing list.