Consolidation of FFmpeg/Audio Options #49241

New Issue

Aaron Carlisle · 2016-09-03T22:33:23+02:00

Aaron Carlisle commented

2016-09-03 22:33:23 +02:00

Currently, the FFmpeg options are in two parts of the properties editor and can be confusing for users.
There are also two places to change the volume, one is for FFmpeg and one is from Blender.
I am a little confused on the reasoning for this if someone can clear this up that would be nice.

Proposal

Move the options under Format to the Encoding panel

Currently, the FFmpeg options are in two parts of the properties editor and can be confusing for users. There are also two places to change the volume, one is for FFmpeg and one is from Blender. I am a little confused on the reasoning for this if someone can clear this up that would be nice. |![audio.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F351924/audio.png)|![encoding.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F351925/encoding.png)| | -- | -- | ## Proposal Move the options under *Format* to the *Encoding panel* |![audio_2.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F351972/audio_2.png)|![encoding2.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F351973/encoding2.png)| | -- | -- |

Aaron Carlisle self-assigned this 2016-09-03 22:33:23 +02:00

Aaron Carlisle commented

2016-09-03 22:33:23 +02:00

Changed status to: 'Open'

Aaron Carlisle commented

2016-09-03 22:33:23 +02:00

Added subscribers: @Blendify, @JulianEisel, @neXyon

Joerg Mueller commented

2016-09-03 22:52:48 +02:00

The reason behind this is, that the Audio settings (first screenshot) are independent of the encoding and important for the playback not only the encoding of a scene. They are mostly unrelated to ffmpeg settings, unlike the Encoding settings (second screenshot). Asking to put for example volume under Encoding is as if you would do the color balance of your images in the export settings. If we do something it would make sense to remove the extra volume setting there, leaving the only two settings that are encoding related: codec and bitrate.

Aaron Carlisle commented

2016-09-03 23:13:26 +02:00

@neXyon I updated the task description of an idea of what this should look like.

Bastien Montagne commented

2016-09-04 09:47:55 +02:00

Added subscriber: @mont29

Bastien Montagne commented

2016-09-04 09:47:55 +02:00

@Blendify this is wrong, Format is "how audio is expected in the scene", this is also not only related to export codec, but also how sound is handled e.g. in VSE…

I agree with @neXyon, only thing you can do is remove the Volume setting from Codec panel - though I’m not sure it’s worth bothering with it either, it does not really do any harm currently. And, the whole codec settings handling would need some rework anyway.

@Blendify this is wrong, Format is "how audio is expected in the scene", this is also not only related to export codec, but also how sound is handled e.g. in VSE… I agree with @neXyon, only thing you can do is remove the Volume setting from Codec panel - though I’m not sure it’s worth bothering with it either, it does not really do any harm currently. **And**, the whole codec settings handling would need some rework anyway.

Aaron Carlisle commented

2016-09-05 21:03:20 +02:00

The thing I am confused about is I thought "how audio is expected in the scene" is affected by the User Preferences [1]?

https://www.blender.org/manual/preferences/system.html#sound

The thing I am confused about is I thought "how audio is expected in the scene" is affected by the User Preferences [1]? 1. https://www.blender.org/manual/preferences/system.html#sound

Joerg Mueller commented

2016-09-19 18:10:42 +02:00

Hmm yeah, we could change that. At the moment for playback inside Blender the user preference settings are used. Ideally people would get the preview of how it would sound after export, so we could use those settings. The problem is that in the end you're always forced to use the user preference settings as maximum as you can't play 5.1 sound through stereo output or 96 kHz through 48 kHz output obviously...

Aaron Carlisle commented

2016-10-11 18:37:43 +02:00

What is the status here? I also want to add that changing the output presets in the render tab changes these settings.

Joerg Mueller commented

2016-10-17 12:51:40 +02:00

UI wise I don't like choosing output presets changing these settings. The worst case of a UI would be where you change some setting and that changes something at a completely different location.

I think we can change the behavior that I mentioned in my last comment for Blender 2.8, for 2.7 I'd still keep the old behavior.

UI wise I don't like choosing output presets changing these settings. The worst case of a UI would be where you change some setting and that changes something at a completely different location. I think we can change the behavior that I mentioned in my last comment for Blender 2.8, for 2.7 I'd still keep the old behavior.

Aaron Carlisle commented

2018-03-22 20:08:05 +01:00

@neXyon With 2.8 having more attention now can we relook at this? How I think it should work is that we should have settings for the final export (in the encoding panel) and settings for current live playback. Currently, the current live playback settings are in the user preferences and I think it would make sense to have them be controlled by the Audio panel. This topic could use some more discussion and overlaps with #54115 I think. So I would also like to CC @JulianEisel here to see what he thinks.

ChristopherAnderssarian commented

2018-03-22 23:34:04 +01:00

Added subscriber: @ChristopherAnderssarian

ChristopherAnderssarian commented

2018-03-22 23:34:04 +01:00

Responding to #49241#389445 #49241#389480 (Removal of the volume slider in the encoding settings)

When adding scene strips to the Video Sequence Editor timeline there is an option for 'Audio Volume' this is that scene's audio and is not affected by that scene's encoding settings, the encoding setting that are used (in a render) are from whichever scene the render is started from.
If the volume slider is removed (from the encoding settings) there would be no way to control the volume of the entire project without going into each scene strips' properties.

Responding to #49241#390007

In #49241#390007, @Blendify wrote:
The thing I am confused about is I thought "how audio is expected in the scene" is affected by the User Preferences [1]?

https://www.blender.org/manual/preferences/system.html#sound

The Sound settings in the User Preferences are how Blender interfaces with your system.
The Scene Audio is the setup of the scene; regardless of User Preferences (hardware) or encoding settings.
The Encoded Audio uses the settings from the Scene Audio, for the render.

Example:

I have a 7.1 surround sound setup for my computer (so my User Preferences are set to 7.1) if I have a project that is 7.1 (so my Scene Audio is set to 7.1) this works fine and the channels all work out. If I need to edit the same project on a laptop or with headphones my User Preferences are set to Stereo because that's what the system has, but the Scene Audio is still set to 7.1 because that's what the project is being edited in.

Meaning settings that affect 7.1 characteristics still work in the project, even if a system has different hardware it's just downmixed.

(so I can have fun with Blender's 7.1 surround sound panning, but I digress...)

(I really need to get around to opening a task for this)

Query to #49241#392667

In #49241#392667, @neXyon wrote:

Hmm yeah, we could change that. At the moment for playback inside Blender the user preference settings are used.

Are they now? Thay have the same default value, but their not linked to each other in terms of what their set to.

Ideally people would get the preview of how it would sound after export, so we could use those settings.

Dare I say that's a feature request(!) Are you talking about what Audacity does with the preview option?

The problem is that in the end you're always forced to use the user preference settings as maximum as you can't play 5.1 sound through stereo output or 96 kHz through 48 kHz output obviously...

I don't understand "you're always forced to use the user preference settings" what did you mean by this?

Responding to #49241#397062

In #49241#397062, @Blendify wrote:
What is the status here? I also want to add that changing the output presets in the render tab changes these settings.

The fact that it can change this is fine, but should:

Not do it without the user's knowledge
Give a warning before changing settings and giving the user information on the exact changes being made
Not set settings higher than what is already set
e.g. the DVD preset will set the audio channels to 5.1 even if it's previously set to stereo or mono. Changing the setting from 7.1 to 5.1 is understandable as DVDs only support up to 5.1 (but are backwards compatible with stereo and mono)

Responding to #49241#489932

In #49241#489932, @Blendify wrote:
@neXyon With 2.8 having more attention now can we relook at this? How I think it should work is that we should have settings for the final export (in the encoding panel) and settings for current live playback. Currently, the current live playback settings are in the user preferences and I think it would make sense to have them be controlled by the Audio panel.

The thing is though pretty much everything outside of the User Preferences are saved in the .blend file.
There has to be this separation in order to accommodate different systems like DPI Scaling or compute devices. This would make no sense.

@Blendify How would mismatched System Sound settings and Scene Audio settings work with you proposal?

___ Responding to #49241#389445 #49241#389480 (Removal of the volume slider in the encoding settings) When adding scene strips to the Video Sequence Editor timeline there is an option for 'Audio Volume' this is that scene's audio and is not affected by that scene's encoding settings, the encoding setting that are used (in a render) are from whichever scene the render is started from. If the volume slider is removed (from the encoding settings) there would be no way to control the volume of the entire project without going into each scene strips' properties. ___ Responding to #49241#390007 > In #49241#390007, @Blendify wrote: > The thing I am confused about is I thought "how audio is expected in the scene" is affected by the User Preferences [1]? > > 1. https://www.blender.org/manual/preferences/system.html#sound The Sound settings in the User Preferences are how Blender interfaces with your system. The Scene Audio is the setup of the scene; regardless of User Preferences (hardware) or encoding settings. The Encoded Audio uses the settings from the Scene Audio, for the render. Example: I have a 7.1 surround sound setup for my computer (so my User Preferences are set to 7.1) if I have a project that is 7.1 (so my Scene Audio is set to 7.1) this works fine and the channels all work out. If I need to edit the same project on a laptop or with headphones my User Preferences are set to Stereo because that's what the system has, but the Scene Audio is still set to 7.1 because that's what the project is being edited in. Meaning settings that affect 7.1 characteristics still work in the project, even if a system has different hardware it's just downmixed. (so I can have fun with Blender's 7.1 surround sound panning, but I digress...) ![Mono Panning.PNG](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F2277034/Mono_Panning.PNG) (I really need to get around to opening a task for this) ___ Query to #49241#392667 > In #49241#392667, @neXyon wrote: > Hmm yeah, we could change that. At the moment for playback inside Blender the user preference settings are used. Are they now? Thay have the same default value, but their not linked to each other in terms of what their set to. >Ideally people would get the preview of how it would sound after export, so we could use those settings. Dare I say that's a feature request(!) Are you talking about what [Audacity does ](http://manual.audacityteam.org/man/change_pitch.html) with the preview option? >The problem is that in the end **you're always forced to use the user preference settings** as maximum as you can't play 5.1 sound through stereo output or 96 kHz through 48 kHz output obviously... I don't understand *"you're always forced to use the user preference settings"* what did you mean by this? ___ Responding to #49241#397062 > In #49241#397062, @Blendify wrote: > What is the status here? I also want to add that changing the output presets in the render tab changes these settings. The fact that it can change this is fine, but should: 1) Not do it without the user's knowledge 2) Give a warning before changing settings and giving the user information on the exact changes being made 3) **Not set settings higher than what is already set** e.g. the DVD preset will set the audio channels to 5.1 even if it's previously set to stereo or mono. Changing the setting from 7.1 to 5.1 is understandable as DVDs only support up to 5.1 (but are backwards compatible with stereo and mono) ___ Responding to #49241#489932 > In #49241#489932, @Blendify wrote: > @neXyon With 2.8 having more attention now can we relook at this? How I think it should work is that we should have settings for the final export (in the encoding panel) and settings for current live playback. Currently, the current live playback settings are in the user preferences and I think it would make sense to have them be controlled by the Audio panel. The thing is though pretty much everything outside of the User Preferences are saved in the .blend file. There has to be this separation in order to accommodate different systems like DPI Scaling or compute devices. This would make no sense. @Blendify How would mismatched *System Sound settings and Scene Audio settings* work with you proposal?

Joerg Mueller commented

2018-03-29 11:53:37 +02:00

Your distinction between the three types of settings is pretty clear. Regarding the user preferences there is no discussion, they are stored system wide and not blend file wide. Playback will always have to happen within the bounds of the user settings. For example, if your user settings are stereo, you simply can't playback 7.1, it will be mixed down to stereo, as in @ChristopherAnderssarian's laptop example.

Now for scene and encoding (stored in the blend file) there are three options that I see right now in terms of format (=channels) and rate (=sample rate):

Keep the settings where they are and use them for encoding and playback (an option here would be to duplicate the input elements in the encoding panel, but I wouldn't remove them from the scene settings).
Move the values to encoding and for playback always use the user settings.
Duplicate the values and have different encoding and playback settings.

Your distinction between the three types of settings is pretty clear. Regarding the user preferences there is no discussion, they are stored system wide and not blend file wide. Playback will always have to happen within the bounds of the user settings. For example, if your user settings are stereo, you simply can't playback 7.1, it will be mixed down to stereo, as in @ChristopherAnderssarian's laptop example. Now for scene and encoding (stored in the blend file) there are three options that I see right now in terms of format (=channels) and rate (=sample rate): 1. Keep the settings where they are and use them for encoding and playback (an option here would be to duplicate the input elements in the encoding panel, but I wouldn't remove them from the scene settings). 2. Move the values to encoding and for playback always use the user settings. 3. Duplicate the values and have different encoding and playback settings.

Aaron Carlisle commented

2018-04-16 18:04:49 +02:00

In #49241#491006, @neXyon wrote:
Your distinction between the three types of settings is pretty clear. Regarding the user preferences there is no discussion, they are stored system wide and not blend file wide. Playback will always have to happen within the bounds of the user settings. For example, if your user settings are stereo, you simply can't playback 7.1, it will be mixed down to stereo, as in @ChristopherAnderssarian's laptop example.

Now for scene and encoding (stored in the blend file) there are three options that I see right now in terms of format (=channels) and rate (=sample rate):

Keep the settings where they are and use them for encoding and playback (an option here would be to duplicate the input elements in the encoding panel, but I wouldn't remove them from the scene settings).

Move the values to encoding and for playback always use the user settings.

Duplicate the values and have different encoding and playback settings.

I prefer number 2 and it what was going at in #49241#489932 although in 2.8 I think there was a discussion about separating some user preference settings into workspace settings. See #54115

> In #49241#491006, @neXyon wrote: > Your distinction between the three types of settings is pretty clear. Regarding the user preferences there is no discussion, they are stored system wide and not blend file wide. Playback will always have to happen within the bounds of the user settings. For example, if your user settings are stereo, you simply can't playback 7.1, it will be mixed down to stereo, as in @ChristopherAnderssarian's laptop example. > > Now for scene and encoding (stored in the blend file) there are three options that I see right now in terms of format (=channels) and rate (=sample rate): > > 1. Keep the settings where they are and use them for encoding and playback (an option here would be to duplicate the input elements in the encoding panel, but I wouldn't remove them from the scene settings). > 2. Move the values to encoding and for playback always use the user settings. > 3. Duplicate the values and have different encoding and playback settings. I prefer number 2 and it what was going at in #49241#489932 although in 2.8 I think there was a discussion about separating some user preference settings into workspace settings. See #54115

Joerg Mueller commented

2018-04-17 09:02:23 +02:00

Looking at #54115 it sounds like system settings and not workspace settings are where the current user settings should go to, since these settings are hardware specific.

The disadvantage of option 2 is that you cannot control playback settings anymore within a file, so I thought option 1 and 3 would be superior in this regard.

Looking at #54115 it sounds like system settings and not workspace settings are where the current user settings should go to, since these settings are hardware specific. The disadvantage of option 2 is that you cannot control playback settings anymore within a file, so I thought option 1 and 3 would be superior in this regard.

Aaron Carlisle commented

2018-04-17 20:32:12 +02:00

Maybe it does make sure that these settings are controlled and saved in the file. At least this will keep things consistent if a studio is having multiple people us one file. Between 1 & 3, I think I like 3 best.

Julian Eisel commented

2020-06-26 19:28:22 +02:00

Changed status from 'Confirmed' to: 'Archived'

Julian Eisel closed this issue

2020-06-26 19:28:22 +02:00

Julian Eisel commented

2020-06-26 19:28:22 +02:00

The GUI for these options was redesigned for 2.8, this task isn't up-to-date anymore.
@Blendify if the task is still valid, feel free to reopen with an updated description, or create a new task.

The GUI for these options was redesigned for 2.8, this task isn't up-to-date anymore. @Blendify if the task is still valid, feel free to reopen with an updated description, or create a new task.

Aaron Carlisle commented

2020-06-27 03:15:25 +02:00

Changed status from 'Archived' to: 'Confirmed'

Aaron Carlisle reopened this issue

2020-06-27 03:15:25 +02:00

blender-admin commented

2020-06-27 18:00:04 +02:00

This issue was referenced by a55eac5107

This issue was referenced by a55eac5107ed54597197e721eee0ad8d6f14a98f

Aaron Carlisle commented

2020-06-27 18:01:14 +02:00

Changed status from 'Confirmed' to: 'Resolved'