Viewport Pie menus update 2.79 #50732

New Issue

Brendon Murphy · 2017-02-20T07:59:15+01:00

Brendon Murphy commented

2017-02-20 07:59:15 +01:00

hi,
This is the task for Updating the Viewport Pie menus for 2.79
Task includes cleanup, hotkey changes, menu changes & removal of the sculpt menu pies.

Some guidelines I'll set out for theses changes.

1/ No sub pies. a pie calling a pie, whilst effective & useful, is not entirely practical. the sub pie is offset from the originals placement, making it jump around the screen.
2/ Where a pie includes a sub menu the sub menu should be positioned on the right.
3/ Where a pie includes a pie box layout, the pie layout should be either symmetrical in nature when considered in context with the whole pie layout or the pie box positioned on the right.
4/ pie menus when possible should use the same hotkey as the standard menu they are replicating.

Removal of the sculpt menu pies, this menu is a good example of where pies do not work, spreading out the brush menus over a pie & sub pie does not make for a faster workflow.
To counter the removal I've written a new addon (based off @Imaginer advanced ui menus that specifically deal with brush modes & includes sculpt & paint mode brushes & fast access tools. Task: #42564

Thanks.

hi, This is the task for Updating the Viewport Pie menus for 2.79 Task includes cleanup, hotkey changes, menu changes & removal of the sculpt menu pies. Some guidelines I'll set out for theses changes. 1/ No sub pies. a pie calling a pie, whilst effective & useful, is not entirely practical. the sub pie is offset from the originals placement, making it jump around the screen. 2/ Where a pie includes a sub menu the sub menu should be positioned on the right. 3/ Where a pie includes a pie box layout, the pie layout should be either symmetrical in nature when considered in context with the whole pie layout or the pie box positioned on the right. 4/ pie menus when possible should use the same hotkey as the standard menu they are replicating. Removal of the sculpt menu pies, this menu is a good example of where pies do not work, spreading out the brush menus over a pie & sub pie does not make for a faster workflow. To counter the removal I've written a new addon (based off @Imaginer advanced ui menus that specifically deal with brush modes & includes sculpt & paint mode brushes & fast access tools. Task: #42564 Thanks.

Brendon Murphy self-assigned this 2017-02-20 07:59:15 +01:00

Brendon Murphy commented

2017-02-20 07:59:15 +01:00

Changed status to: 'Open'

Brendon Murphy commented

2017-02-20 07:59:15 +01:00

Added subscribers: @Imaginer, @BrendonMurphy

Julian Eisel commented

2017-02-20 13:58:38 +01:00

Added subscriber: @JulianEisel

Julian Eisel commented

2017-02-20 13:58:38 +01:00

I don't think such changes should be done for 2.79 instead of 2.80. Especially stuff like changing shortcuts and design guidelines. From a user POV these may not be trivial.
Also, when changing guidelines we should make sure there's wide agreement and then do it once and for all (more or less). We must not change any guidelines, just to change them again after a few releases.

We planned to work on pie menu guidelines for 2.8 , so I suggest we repurpose this task for discussing these.

I don't think such changes should be done for 2.79 instead of 2.80. Especially stuff like changing shortcuts and design guidelines. From a user POV these may not be trivial. Also, when changing guidelines we should make sure there's wide agreement and then do it once and for all (more or less). We must not change any guidelines, just to change them again after a few releases. We [planned to work on pie menu guidelines for 2.8 ](https://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Dev:2.8/UI/Workshop_Writeup#Pies), so I suggest we repurpose this task for discussing these.

Brendon Murphy commented

2017-02-21 07:47:48 +01:00

@JulianEisel
hi,
"Many of the pie menus that are currently available are mostly a mess. While it should be totally allowed that users configure their own crazy pie menus, at least the ones that ship with Blender should be laid out well and be an actual improvement for fast workflows.
We’re working on a pie menu design guideline page that should be followed to ensure these qualities. "

Given this somewhat harsh public comment some changes are needed now.

Sculpt pies will be removed & replaced by the standalone non pie workflow based Brush menus addon. which is a far superior addon with logical workflow.
Cursor/origin pie (shift/s) has a sub pie for origin, these will be split into 2 addons (shift/o) seems logical for origin pies. (alt/shift/o) could be better.
Edit Align (alt/x) box menu can be moved to the empty space on the right in the menu.
View numpad pie (q) the operators on the left can be switched with the pie on the right.
maybe a couple more superficial small changes where needed.

Given I'm the author of this menu & no-one had an interest in pie menus for 2 years? It's kind of frustrating that everyone now thinks they have ownership of my menus. Whilst I'm happy to work with & consult with UI team, some room to breath & take on-board your concerns & make changes based off valid complaints whilst maintaining the integrity of the original designs is needed also.
It's also good that I've evoked interest in pies again.

Thanks.

@JulianEisel hi, "Many of the pie menus that are currently available are mostly a mess. While it should be totally allowed that users configure their own crazy pie menus, at least the ones that ship with Blender should be laid out well and be an actual improvement for fast workflows. We’re working on a pie menu design guideline page that should be followed to ensure these qualities. " Given this somewhat harsh public comment some changes are needed now. Sculpt pies will be removed & replaced by the standalone non pie workflow based Brush menus addon. which is a far superior addon with logical workflow. Cursor/origin pie (shift/s) has a sub pie for origin, these will be split into 2 addons (shift/o) seems logical for origin pies. (alt/shift/o) could be better. Edit Align (alt/x) box menu can be moved to the empty space on the right in the menu. View numpad pie (q) the operators on the left can be switched with the pie on the right. maybe a couple more superficial small changes where needed. Given I'm the author of this menu & no-one had an interest in pie menus for 2 years? It's kind of frustrating that everyone now thinks they have ownership of my menus. Whilst I'm happy to work with & consult with UI team, some room to breath & take on-board your concerns & make changes based off valid complaints whilst maintaining the integrity of the original designs is needed also. It's also good that I've evoked interest in pies again. Thanks.

Aleksandr Zinovev commented

2017-02-23 11:40:10 +01:00

Added subscriber: @AleksandrZinovev-2

Aleksandr Zinovev commented

2017-02-23 11:40:10 +01:00

1/ No sub pies. a pie calling a pie, whilst effective & useful, is not entirely practical. the sub pie is offset from the originals placement, making it jump around the screen.
2/ Where a pie includes a sub menu the sub menu should be positioned on the right.
3/ Where a pie includes a pie box layout, the pie layout should be either symmetrical in nature when considered in context with the whole pie layout or the pie box positioned on the right.
4/ pie menus when possible should use the same hotkey as the standard menu they are replicating.

Agree. It's better to avoid using sub pies, sub menus and sub layouts.
When we need to add more than 8 buttons imo we should use:

2 columns layout with 2 optional buttons on the top or bottom
only 1 button on the top/bottom
all buttons should use sub-layouts (in this case all the buttons will look the same)
no diagonal slots
no box layouts
all buttons should be scaled (scale_y = 1.5)

Here is an example for sculpt pie:

Note that the pic has buggy labels .

> 1/ No sub pies. a pie calling a pie, whilst effective & useful, is not entirely practical. the sub pie is offset from the originals placement, making it jump around the screen. >2/ Where a pie includes a sub menu the sub menu should be positioned on the right. >3/ Where a pie includes a pie box layout, the pie layout should be either symmetrical in nature when considered in context with the whole pie layout or the pie box positioned on the right. >4/ pie menus when possible should use the same hotkey as the standard menu they are replicating. Agree. It's better to avoid using sub pies, sub menus and sub layouts. When we need to add more than 8 buttons imo we should use: - 2 columns layout with 2 optional buttons on the top or bottom - only 1 button on the top/bottom - all buttons should use sub-layouts (in this case all the buttons will look the same) - no diagonal slots - no box layouts - all buttons should be scaled (scale_y = 1.5) Here is an example for sculpt pie: ![pie.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F494401/pie.png) Note that the pic has [buggy labels ](https://developer.blender.org/D2419).

Brendon Murphy commented

2017-03-11 18:31:38 +01:00

hi, I spent the last couple of days revisiting Pie menus based off user feedback & dev concerns,
Changes made:
Removal of sub pies withing pies:
This did not really work well, causing the sub pie to be at a different location than the original & offered extra clicks & little if any usability increase.
Better consistent naming & layouts, sub pies have been changed to menu style:

Menu Style has fast visibility, no extra clicks & visual indication that the pie does more. (apart from simple hover opens the menu), I added Menu to the pie name in most cases, Menus are consistent position bottom or bottom right.

Other changes include Splitting the Origin/Snap Cursor pie/sub pie into individual pie menus.
Icons fixes: #50586
Viewport Pie menus are in much better shape with this update, whilst not perfect, they take a step in the right direction providing a better experience for the user.
Given I introduced the menu recently in 2.78, the changes reflect dev & user concerns including usability & bug fix, making this update practical for longer term 2.79 use.

I agree that in Blender 2.8 we need to revisit Pie menus however I also need to fix/improve the current mess I made.

File: space_view3d_pie_menus.zip

Thanks.

hi, I spent the last couple of days revisiting Pie menus based off user feedback & dev concerns, Changes made: Removal of sub pies withing pies: *This did not really work well, causing the sub pie to be at a different location than the original & offered extra clicks & little if any usability increase.* Better consistent naming & layouts, sub pies have been changed to menu style: ![sculpt_ pies5.jpg](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F507276/sculpt__pies5.jpg) Menu Style has fast visibility, no extra clicks & visual indication that the pie does more. (apart from simple hover opens the menu), I added Menu to the pie name in most cases, Menus are consistent position bottom or bottom right. ![select menu.jpg](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F507285/select_menu.jpg) Other changes include Splitting the Origin/Snap Cursor pie/sub pie into individual pie menus. Icons fixes: #50586 Viewport Pie menus are in much better shape with this update, whilst not perfect, they take a step in the right direction providing a better experience for the user. Given I introduced the menu recently in 2.78, the changes reflect dev & user concerns including usability & bug fix, making this update practical for longer term 2.79 use. I agree that in Blender 2.8 we need to revisit Pie menus however I also need to fix/improve the current mess I made. File: [space_view3d_pie_menus.zip](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F507299/space_view3d_pie_menus.zip) Thanks.

Brendon Murphy commented

2017-03-19 05:31:13 +01:00

Changed status from 'Open' to: 'Resolved'

Brendon Murphy closed this issue

2017-03-19 05:31:13 +01:00

Brendon Murphy commented

2017-03-19 05:31:13 +01:00

Closing as resolved.

We should create a dedicated task to improving & setting guidelines for Pie menus 2.8 version soon.

Closing as resolved. We should create a dedicated task to improving & setting guidelines for Pie menus 2.8 version soon.

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