Collections (parent task) #55099

New Issue

Brecht Van Lommel · 2018-05-16T15:05:28+02:00

Brecht Van Lommel commented

2018-05-16 15:05:28 +02:00

Possible improvements for collections user interface:

G-key group operators in the 3D viewport and object properties should become more clear.
Creating a new collection in the outliner could put all the selected objects (and collections?) in it.
Shortcut keys to improve usability, as in #54707.

Possible improvements for collections user interface: * G-key group operators in the 3D viewport and object properties should become more clear. * Creating a new collection in the outliner could put all the selected objects (and collections?) in it. * Shortcut keys to improve usability, as in #54707.

Brecht Van Lommel self-assigned this 2018-05-16 15:05:28 +02:00

Brecht Van Lommel commented

2018-05-16 15:05:28 +02:00

Added subscriber: @brecht

blender-admin commented

2018-05-16 15:05:28 +02:00

#63718 was marked as duplicate of this issue

blender-admin commented

2018-05-16 15:05:28 +02:00

#58195 was marked as duplicate of this issue

Duarte Farrajota Ramos commented

2018-05-19 06:40:22 +02:00

Added subscriber: @DuarteRamos

Manuel Rais commented

2018-05-24 10:37:56 +02:00

Added subscriber: @g-lul

Rainer Trummer commented

2018-05-25 06:20:42 +02:00

Added subscriber: @RainerTrummer

Duarte Farrajota Ramos commented

2018-06-11 20:35:31 +02:00

Would it be too much trouble to allow longer collection (or datablock in general) name length?

My current use case is I have several "library" blend files where I keep large amounts of furniture assets with variations as groups for linking.
I like having descriptive names I can filter by while linking from the File Window like say Furniture_Seats_Couch_BrandName_White, Furniture_Seats_Couch_BrandName_Red or Furniture_Table_Square_Boards_Wood_Dark_TallLegs_Black

While "tagging" names this way for easy filtering/finding, one quickly runs out of space and have to resort to using cryptic acronyms.
Also if these will replace groups as an instancing tool (in some form of "Collection Instances", "Dupligroup"s "Dupli Instances"?) names will still have to remain globally unique, right?

Would it be too much trouble to allow longer collection (or datablock in general) name length? My current use case is I have several "library" blend files where I keep large amounts of furniture assets with variations as groups for linking. I like having descriptive names I can filter by while linking from the File Window like say `Furniture_Seats_Couch_BrandName_White`, `Furniture_Seats_Couch_BrandName_Red` or `Furniture_Table_Square_Boards_Wood_Dark_TallLegs_Black` While "tagging" names this way for easy filtering/finding, one quickly runs out of space and have to resort to using cryptic acronyms. Also if these will replace groups as an instancing tool (in some form of "Collection Instances", "Dupligroup"s "Dupli Instances"?) names will still have to remain globally unique, right?

Brecht Van Lommel changed title from ~~Collections and groups unification tasks~~ to Collection tasks

2018-08-13 11:46:00 +02:00

Brecht Van Lommel changed title from ~~Collection tasks~~ to Collections (parent task)

2018-08-13 11:47:57 +02:00

Marcus Papathoma commented

2018-09-13 10:18:23 +02:00

Added subscriber: @machieb

Marcus Papathoma commented

2018-09-13 10:18:23 +02:00

Brecht, would it be possible to allow parenting by draging and droping mulible objects in the outliner like it is possible to drag and drop multible objects into collections? That would be really great and makes Blender more consistent!

Brecht Van Lommel commented

2018-11-29 22:28:28 +01:00

Added subscriber: @candreacchio

Vitaliy commented

2019-01-27 15:06:03 +01:00

Added subscriber: @Northsteel

Martin Capitanio commented

2019-02-11 05:17:43 +01:00

Added subscriber: @capnm

Brecht Van Lommel removed their assignment 2019-04-12 08:14:08 +02:00

Dalai Felinto was assigned by Brecht Van Lommel

2019-04-12 08:14:08 +02:00

Paul Kotelevets commented

2019-04-14 14:47:09 +02:00

Added subscriber: @1D_Inc

Paul Kotelevets commented

2019-04-14 14:47:09 +02:00

A very nice to have a Collection task!
We've made a devtalk feedback review, with problems considering Collections usability, can be useful.

https:*devtalk.blender.org/t/layers-maniphest/6578/22?u=1d_inc

A very nice to have a Collection task! We've made a devtalk feedback review, with problems considering Collections usability, can be useful. [https:*devtalk.blender.org/t/layers-maniphest/6578/22?u=1d_inc ](https:*devtalk.blender.org/t/layers-maniphest/6578/22?u=1d_inc)

Dalai Felinto commented

2019-04-16 16:44:23 +02:00

Creating a new collection in the outliner should put all the selected objects (and collections?) in it.

The issue I have with this is that at the moment we create collections nested to the selected collection.
If we are to support what you suggest we will need to drop this feature.

> Creating a new collection in the outliner should put all the selected objects (and collections?) in it. The issue I have with this is that at the moment we create collections nested to the selected collection. If we are to support what you suggest we will need to drop this feature.

Brecht Van Lommel commented

2019-04-16 16:58:39 +02:00

Right, that is a problem. You could get the old behavior when deselecting everything first, then it could use the active collection. Not entirely obvious though.

These two usability improvements I don't consider high priority by the way.

Right, that is a problem. You could get the old behavior when deselecting everything first, then it could use the active collection. Not entirely obvious though. These two usability improvements I don't consider high priority by the way.

Duarte Farrajota Ramos commented

2019-04-16 17:17:19 +02:00

I can see how this would be a useful feature, but it can also be quite destructive if an unsuspecting user creates a new collection and suddenly finds out all his selected objects were moved there.
It also raises some questions like if objects should be moved to the new collection (removed from all current ones) or should they be linked (remain in their current collections in addition to the new one)?

Since it would be quite easy to move selected objects to the newly created collection afterwards (if creating a new collection doesn't deselect them) I'd vote to keep current behavior (nesting in selected layer) as well.

Ideally though it could be a parameter for bpy.ops.outliner.collection_new operator, and be exposed both in the key map (configurable per key) and in a redo panel for this operator. There the user would toggle between nesting and/or adding selected objects; and choosing between moving or linking to the collection, though I am sure this would not be trivial and probably out of scope here.

I can see how this would be a useful feature, but it can also be quite destructive if an unsuspecting user creates a new collection and suddenly finds out all his selected objects were moved there. It also raises some questions like if objects should be moved to the new collection (removed from all current ones) or should they be linked (remain in their current collections in addition to the new one)? Since it would be quite easy to move selected objects to the newly created collection afterwards (if creating a new collection doesn't deselect them) I'd vote to keep current behavior (nesting in selected layer) as well. Ideally though it could be a parameter for `bpy.ops.outliner.collection_new` operator, and be exposed both in the key map (configurable per key) and in a redo panel for this operator. There the user would toggle between nesting and/or adding selected objects; and choosing between moving or linking to the collection, though I am sure this would not be trivial and probably out of scope here.

Paul Kotelevets commented

2019-04-16 21:07:04 +02:00

Currently
Case A [Shift+M - New Collection] creates cumulative collection with cumulative (multihierarchical) object links
That's behaviour of Collections, as it uses cumulativity.

There can be new option next to it, for example
Case B [Shift+M - Collect selection] that places selected objects in new collection non-cumulatively, separating them from other collections.
This is behaviour of common Grouping, and it is a very powerful ability.

Case B will be used much more often, because, basically, cases when you really need cumulativeness in your scene's structure are pretty much rare.
Mostly user will need something like to "separate flowers from vase" or "car from garage" by selecting objects, pressing button and giving Flowers or Car their name.

Currently Case A [Shift+M - New Collection] creates cumulative collection with cumulative (multihierarchical) object links That's behaviour of Collections, as it uses cumulativity. There can be new option next to it, for example Case B [Shift+M - Collect selection] that places selected objects in new collection non-cumulatively, separating them from other collections. This is behaviour of common Grouping, and it is a very powerful ability. Case B will be used much more often, because, basically, cases when you really need cumulativeness in your scene's structure are pretty much rare. Mostly user will need something like to "separate flowers from vase" or "car from garage" by selecting objects, pressing button and giving Flowers or Car their name.

Paul Kotelevets commented

2019-04-17 11:34:08 +02:00

Aww, it seems that does M - New Collection in 3D Viewport already.
Sorry for that inconvenience.

Considering outliner, the button have description "Add a new collection insie selected collection", so description doesnot promise such a thing.
This can be implemented as a "Collect selection" option from RMB menu in outliner.

A bit another issue about visibility - if objects are created in not visible collection, it creates but not displayes.
Better will be block creating and show info message that current collection is hidden or in hidden collection.

Aww, it seems that does M - New Collection in 3D Viewport already. Sorry for that inconvenience. Considering outliner, the button have description "Add a new collection insie selected collection", so description doesnot promise such a thing. This can be implemented as a "Collect selection" option from RMB menu in outliner. A bit another issue about visibility - if objects are created in not visible collection, it creates but not displayes. Better will be block creating and show info message that current collection is hidden or in hidden collection.

Sebastian Parborg commented

2019-04-19 14:46:26 +02:00

Added subscribers: @NickMade, @Zeirus

takeshi funahashi commented

2019-04-21 09:41:01 +02:00

Added subscriber: @TakeshiFunahashi

takeshi funahashi commented

2019-04-21 09:41:01 +02:00

When cube object is member of "collection1" and "collection2", "unlink" can remove cube only from current selected collection. It is reasonable.
But when cube is grouped as "collection1" only, then unlink not remove cube only from "collection1" but unlink from "Scenecollection" then now cube becom as orphan data.

I think it may better, just remove link from "colleciton1" but auto set member of "SceneCollection" ?

If developer plan to force all object must need to be member of sub-collections (not SceneCollection), I understand the behavor, but actually we can easy add object without use collection.
;o(cube become member of "SceneCollection") , so I expect, unlink means only remove the link from current colleciton. (user made), not from SceneColleciton .
or maybetter offer more good tip (infomation).

When cube object is member of "collection1" and "collection2", "unlink" can remove cube only from current selected collection. It is reasonable. But when cube is grouped as "collection1" only, then unlink not remove cube only from "collection1" but unlink from "Scenecollection" then now cube becom as orphan data. I think it may better, just remove link from "colleciton1" but auto set member of "SceneCollection" ? If developer plan to force all object must need to be member of sub-collections (not SceneCollection), I understand the behavor, but actually we can easy add object without use collection. ;o(cube become member of "SceneCollection") , so I expect, unlink means only remove the link from current colleciton. (user made), not from SceneColleciton . or maybetter offer more good tip (infomation).

Dalai Felinto was unassigned by Brecht Van Lommel

2019-05-17 23:03:09 +02:00

Brecht Van Lommel commented

2019-05-17 23:03:09 +02:00

Added subscriber: @dfelinto

Cirno commented

2019-07-10 04:38:49 +02:00

Added subscriber: @Lambdadelta

Tomáš Procházka commented

2020-05-31 13:57:10 +02:00

Added subscriber: @tprochazka

Tomáš Procházka commented

2020-05-31 13:57:10 +02:00

I really like Blender, but this working with large scenes is still quite complicated, compared to Sketchup for example. I think that it is quite common to have one complex object on the scene, like TV or bed which should be handled as one object most of the time, but I still want to have the possibility to edit each sub-object separately.

But I think that just few changes can make editing big scenes much easier:

1.) I would like to have a mode (available on Options menu) which will handle all objects in the collection as one big object (at least for basic transforms like move, rotate, scale). So when you click on the object in the scene it will highlight the whole collections. It helps a lot to organize objects on the scene in a much easier way.

2.) Each collection should also have its own origin point (for rotation and scale).

3.) Also, the slash key which normally displays just selected objects should work when the collection is selected. It should hide everything and show just whole collections. And also all other transform keys like g, s, r should work when the collection is selected.

Points 2 and 3, can work also without explicit lock suggested by 1 if I select collection in the outlined window. When I click on collection it can automatically select all the objects in the collection (now it is available only in the context menu) and click doesn't anything.

Wha t you think about this?

I really like Blender, but this working with large scenes is still quite complicated, compared to Sketchup for example. I think that it is quite common to have one complex object on the scene, like TV or bed which should be handled as one object most of the time, but I still want to have the possibility to edit each sub-object separately. But I think that just few changes can make editing big scenes much easier: 1.) I would like to have a mode (available on Options menu) which will handle all objects in the collection as one big object (at least for basic transforms like move, rotate, scale). So when you click on the object in the scene it will highlight the whole collections. It helps a lot to organize objects on the scene in a much easier way. 2.) Each collection should also have its own origin point (for rotation and scale). 3.) Also, the slash key which normally displays just selected objects should work when the collection is selected. It should hide everything and show just whole collections. And also all other transform keys like g, s, r should work when the collection is selected. Points 2 and 3, can work also without explicit lock suggested by 1 if I select collection in the outlined window. When I click on collection it can automatically select all the objects in the collection (now it is available only in the context menu) and click doesn't anything. Wha t you think about this?

Paul Kotelevets commented

2020-06-01 03:59:39 +02:00

In #55099#941784, @tprochazka wrote:

1.) I would like to have a mode (available on Options menu) which will handle all objects in the collection as one big object (at least for basic transforms like move, rotate, scale). So when you click on the object in the scene it will highlight the whole collections. It helps a lot to organize objects on the scene in a much easier way.

Problems with cumulativity (when single object can belong to several collections)

2.) Each collection should also have its own origin point (for rotation and scale).

Same cumulativity issue.

3.) Also, the slash key which normally displays just selected objects should work when the collection is selected. It should hide everything and show just whole collections. And also all other transform keys like g, s, r should work when the collection is selected.

Collection isolation has been proposed in other way.

> In #55099#941784, @tprochazka wrote: > 1.) I would like to have a mode (available on Options menu) which will handle all objects in the collection as one big object (at least for basic transforms like move, rotate, scale). So when you click on the object in the scene it will highlight the whole collections. It helps a lot to organize objects on the scene in a much easier way. Problems with cumulativity (when single object can belong to several collections) > 2.) Each collection should also have its own origin point (for rotation and scale). Same cumulativity issue. > 3.) Also, the slash key which normally displays just selected objects should work when the collection is selected. It should hide everything and show just whole collections. And also all other transform keys like g, s, r should work when the collection is selected. Collection isolation has been proposed in other way.

Tomáš Procházka commented

2020-06-01 11:47:20 +02:00

I understand. Sorry, I did not realize that. It's probably the reason why Sketchup has two separate entities groups and layers. Collections in Blender are more likely layers. So maybe it would be also a way to introduce something like groups, it will be just a different icon in the outliner. It's currently supported for linked objects from external sources (the package icon), which behaves like one object and has also its own origin point. But it is not possible to do it easily inside of your own scene. It is possible to use a parent object, but then I need to remember which one is the top one and which one I should move and it is sometimes hard for complex objects. It's designed for animations, not for groups.

There was a plugin for non-destructive join, but it's not working anymore for 2.8.X
https://bitbucket.org/aivanis/smart-join/src/master/

I understand. Sorry, I did not realize that. It's probably the reason why Sketchup has two separate entities groups and layers. Collections in Blender are more likely layers. So maybe it would be also a way to introduce something like groups, it will be just a different icon in the outliner. It's currently supported for linked objects from external sources (the package icon), which behaves like one object and has also its own origin point. But it is not possible to do it easily inside of your own scene. It is possible to use a parent object, but then I need to remember which one is the top one and which one I should move and it is sometimes hard for complex objects. It's designed for animations, not for groups. There was a plugin for non-destructive join, but it's not working anymore for 2.8.X https://bitbucket.org/aivanis/smart-join/src/master/

Pam Hampton commented

2023-11-02 18:29:09 +01:00

Text Info shows last Collection selected as the Collection for the next object selected instead of the Collection to which it belongs. This is true in latest 3.3.65 official and daily, as well as 4.0 , 4.1. Would be useful if the Text Info would state the Collection to which the selected object actually belongs.

bug text info shows wrong group.jpg

236 KiB

Paul Kotelevets commented

2023-11-08 09:30:11 +01:00

Text Info shows last Collection selected as the Collection for the next object selected instead of the Collection to which it belongs. This is true in latest 3.3.65 official and daily, as well as 4.0 , 4.1. Would be useful if the Text Info would state the Collection to which the selected object actually belongs.

Status bar displayes active collection (where new objects will be created)
Showing selected object's collection will cause problems with cumulativity.

> Text Info shows last Collection selected as the Collection for the next object selected instead of the Collection to which it belongs. This is true in latest 3.3.65 official and daily, as well as 4.0 , 4.1. Would be useful if the Text Info would state the Collection to which the selected object actually belongs. Status bar displayes active collection (where new objects will be created) Showing selected object's collection will cause problems with cumulativity.

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Collections (parent task) #55099