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Move the transform info away from the header, into the viewport. #57712

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opened 2018-11-08 17:25:32 +01:00 by William Reynish · 57 comments
William Reynish commented 2018-11-08 17:25:32 +01:00
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Currently, when you transform any item in Blender, we take over the header while the transform is happening:

Screen Shot 2018-11-08 at 17.21.22.png

This makes for a vey flashing/blinking UI, where both the header and the viewport gizmo disappears and re-appears in a jarring way.

Instead, the header and viewport gizmos should stay untouched, and the transform info can be moved to the viewport along the bottom.

Currently, when you transform any item in Blender, we take over the header while the transform is happening: ![Screen Shot 2018-11-08 at 17.21.22.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F5444440/Screen_Shot_2018-11-08_at_17.21.22.png) This makes for a vey flashing/blinking UI, where both the header and the viewport gizmo disappears and re-appears in a jarring way. Instead, the header and viewport gizmos should stay untouched, and the transform info can be moved to the viewport along the bottom.
William Reynish commented 2018-11-08 17:25:32 +01:00
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kursad k commented 2018-11-11 05:04:48 +01:00
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kursad k commented 2018-11-11 05:07:53 +01:00
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Thanks for adding this bug.

I personally think that this "feature", "bug" or "incomplete" inplmenetation is really annoying when modelling or doing similar tasks. Icons constantly disappear and appear during edits which makes the whole 2.8 experience to be a dizzy one, at least in my use case. I tried to bring this up in a BA forum post. https://blenderartists.org/t/any-way-to-keep-the-screen-widgets-on-the-screen-while-editing-in-edit-mode/1132726/2

I imagine that the additional information about the edits ( like the transform deltas etc) can still be shown at the bottom of the 3d viewport which seems to be just empty in general. I personally see no reason to disable UI elements to put a single line of info up there.

thanks

Thanks for adding this bug. I personally think that this "feature", "bug" or "incomplete" inplmenetation is really annoying when modelling or doing similar tasks. Icons constantly disappear and appear during edits which makes the whole 2.8 experience to be a dizzy one, at least in my use case. I tried to bring this up in a BA forum post. https://blenderartists.org/t/any-way-to-keep-the-screen-widgets-on-the-screen-while-editing-in-edit-mode/1132726/2 I imagine that the additional information about the edits ( like the transform deltas etc) can still be shown at the bottom of the 3d viewport which seems to be just empty in general. I personally see no reason to disable UI elements to put a single line of info up there. thanks
Campbell Barton commented 2018-11-12 06:35:52 +01:00
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Maybe stating the obvious:

  • This will show as a bottom-left aligned opaque rectangle with text drawn into it.
  • It must draw ontop of everything (toolbar, redo panel, look dev etc).
Maybe stating the obvious: - This will show as a bottom-left aligned opaque rectangle with text drawn into it. - It must draw ontop of everything (toolbar, redo panel, look dev etc).
Xury Greer commented 2018-11-18 00:42:21 +01:00
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Xury Greer commented 2018-11-18 00:42:21 +01:00
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translationsuggestion2.png
Now that we have the status bar, information about operator hotkeys can be displayed at the bottom of the screen.
As for what to do with the rest of the transformation information; Why not have the operator panel pop up while you are performing an operation instead of after you confirm the operation?

Most of the information is the same anyway, and it is presented in a much cleaner way in the operator panel.
For this to work the operator panel would have to live-update, and it would have to contain extra information like axis lock: ‘along global z’ etc…
If you press escape or right click to cancel the current operator, then the operator panel could go back to displaying the previous operation.

Does anyone know a reason not to do it this way? This just makes sense to me. :)

![translationsuggestion2.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F5609424/translationsuggestion2.png) Now that we have the status bar, information about operator hotkeys can be displayed at the bottom of the screen. As for what to do with the rest of the transformation information; Why not have the operator panel pop up *while* you are performing an operation instead of *after* you confirm the operation? Most of the information is the same anyway, and it is presented in a much cleaner way in the operator panel. For this to work the operator panel would have to live-update, and it would have to contain extra information like axis lock: ‘along global z’ etc… If you press escape or right click to cancel the current operator, then the operator panel could go back to displaying the previous operation. Does anyone know a reason not to do it this way? This just makes sense to me. :)
Russell commented 2019-03-11 21:40:23 +01:00
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Russell commented 2019-03-11 21:40:23 +01:00
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This bug is annoying me constantly. Every time I hit G to move something I look for the axes gizmo in the top right corner to see which axis I should be moving along and the gizmo is gone. Then I hit escape, look at the gizmo, decide the direction, then hit G again. It just kills the workflow when you're up close with something and aren't sure which way you're facing.

This bug is annoying me constantly. Every time I hit G to move something I look for the axes gizmo in the top right corner to see which axis I should be moving along and the gizmo is gone. Then I hit escape, look at the gizmo, decide the direction, then hit G again. It just kills the workflow when you're up close with something and aren't sure which way you're facing.
Campbell Barton commented 2019-03-12 02:00:35 +01:00
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@Russ1642 this is off topic.

@Russ1642 this is off topic.
Kai Jægersen commented 2019-03-12 02:22:02 +01:00
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Kai Jægersen commented 2019-03-12 02:22:02 +01:00
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Scenario: A user works in fullscreen without a header to get rid of distractions.

As it stands now, the modal updates won't show up unless the header is toggled on. This proposal could potentially be just as jarring for such users, unless there was an option to toggle this. Not saying I'm one of those, but it does sound like this is information would be somewhat forced on the user.

Scenario: A user works in fullscreen without a header to get rid of distractions. As it stands now, the modal updates won't show up unless the header is toggled on. This proposal could potentially be just as jarring for such users, unless there was an option to toggle this. Not saying I'm one of those, but it does sound like this is information would be somewhat forced on the user.
Russell commented 2019-03-12 02:55:19 +01:00
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UI elements disappearing and reappearing while you're working seems pretty on-topic to me. I was going to post this as a new bug but found that it's been identified already. No bug comes anywhere close to being as annoying as being brushed off by the developers though. We're not whining. We're beta testing. I show my praise as well by donating to the development fund. Bug reports will always seem like a bunch of whining though, and there's nothing I can do about that.

UI elements disappearing and reappearing while you're working seems pretty on-topic to me. I was going to post this as a new bug but found that it's been identified already. No bug comes anywhere close to being as annoying as being brushed off by the developers though. We're not whining. We're beta testing. I show my praise as well by donating to the development fund. Bug reports will always seem like a bunch of whining though, and there's nothing I can do about that.
Campbell Barton commented 2019-03-12 03:44:03 +01:00
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It's off topic because resolving the issue described here won't address your concern.

It's off topic because resolving the issue described here won't address your concern.
Russell commented 2019-03-12 04:01:11 +01:00
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In #57712#638008, @ideasman42 wrote:
It's off topic because resolving the issue described here won't address your concern.

My comment was in regards to the viewport header overlays disappearing while transforming. Isn't that what this bug is? I'll file a separate bug report then. Someone will just merge it with this one.

> In #57712#638008, @ideasman42 wrote: > It's off topic because resolving the issue described here won't address your concern. My comment was in regards to the viewport header overlays disappearing while transforming. Isn't that what this bug is? I'll file a separate bug report then. Someone will just merge it with this one.
frequencydistribution commented 2019-03-21 20:08:05 +01:00
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frequencydistribution commented 2019-03-21 20:08:05 +01:00
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frequencydistribution commented 2019-03-21 20:15:52 +01:00
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Campbell Barton (campbellbarton) I think you should read the comments more carefully.

This is from the actual description of this topic:
"This makes for a vey flashing/blinking UI, where both the header and the viewport gizmo disappears and re-appears in a jarring way."

And this is from the first reply:
"I personally think that this "feature", "bug" or "incomplete" inplmenetation is really annoying when modelling or doing similar tasks. Icons constantly disappear and appear during edits which makes the whole 2.8 experience to be a dizzy one, at least in my use case."

I really don't understand how after reading these you came to the conclusion that Russell's message is off-topic.

Anyway, I think it is unacceptable for any UI design to blink with your every move. It is very annoying and distracting. I understand that these types of bugs have been categorized under a category called UI Paper Cuts. I think this thing is your ultimate UI paper cut.

Let's say you are tweaking some vertices of a model you are working on, or you are retopologizing a mesh you sculpted.

Well, this is the thing you see every second:
blender_ui_problem.gif

It looks like a corrupt IconCache.db causing all your icons annoyingly flash on Windows.

Campbell Barton (campbellbarton) I think you should read the comments more carefully. This is from the actual description of this topic: "This makes for a vey flashing/blinking UI, where both the header and the viewport gizmo disappears and re-appears in a jarring way." And this is from the first reply: "I personally think that this "feature", "bug" or "incomplete" inplmenetation is really annoying when modelling or doing similar tasks. Icons constantly disappear and appear during edits which makes the whole 2.8 experience to be a dizzy one, at least in my use case." I really don't understand how after reading these you came to the conclusion that Russell's message is off-topic. Anyway, I think it is unacceptable for any UI design to blink with your every move. It is very annoying and distracting. I understand that these types of bugs have been categorized under a category called UI Paper Cuts. I think this thing is your ultimate UI paper cut. Let's say you are tweaking some vertices of a model you are working on, or you are retopologizing a mesh you sculpted. Well, this is the thing you see every second: ![blender_ui_problem.gif](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F6861890/blender_ui_problem.gif) It looks like a corrupt IconCache.db causing all your icons annoyingly flash on Windows.
Russell commented 2019-03-21 20:25:33 +01:00
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I can't believe we need to convince devs that dealing with huge UI issues is worthwhile. If many had their way Blender would be a command-line tool only.

I can't believe we need to convince devs that dealing with huge UI issues is worthwhile. If many had their way Blender would be a command-line tool only.
William Reynish commented 2019-03-21 21:18:05 +01:00
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Yes, we should address this. We have done some work to make sure Blender 2.8 is less ‘blinky’ and ‘jumpy’ compared to 2.79, where header items would move around a lot more.

This is one of the last major areas where we still have issues with flashing or blinking. Not only is it jarring and distracting, it’s a usability issue too. It means you cannot see the axes or transform settings at a glance while transforming.

The first step could be to simply make sure that the viewport gizmo does not disappear while transforming. Next, the harder part it is to find a nicer way to deal with the transform info.

I think we could probably put this along the bottom of the viewport, perhaps.

Yes, we should address this. We have done some work to make sure Blender 2.8 is less ‘blinky’ and ‘jumpy’ compared to 2.79, where header items would move around a lot more. This is one of the last major areas where we still have issues with flashing or blinking. Not only is it jarring and distracting, it’s a usability issue too. It means you cannot see the axes or transform settings at a glance while transforming. The first step could be to simply make sure that the viewport gizmo does not disappear while transforming. Next, the harder part it is to find a nicer way to deal with the transform info. I think we could probably put this along the bottom of the viewport, perhaps.
William Reynish commented 2019-03-22 13:57:02 +01:00
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Here's how it could look if we moved the transform info to the bottom:

Screenshot 2019-03-22 at 13.52.24.png

Screenshot 2019-03-22 at 13.52.32.png

{F6865233, size=full}
{F6865235, size=full}

In the long run it would really be nice if this information was merged with the redo-panel though. It makes no sense to have this information be duplicated.

If the operator adjustments/redo panel used the horizontal 'strip' design, one can imagine it fitting quite nicely:

{F6865279, size=full}

This gives an example of how we could solve it by combining it with the redo panel.

Here's how it could look if we moved the transform info to the bottom: ![Screenshot 2019-03-22 at 13.52.24.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F6865228/Screenshot_2019-03-22_at_13.52.24.png) ![Screenshot 2019-03-22 at 13.52.32.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F6865230/Screenshot_2019-03-22_at_13.52.32.png) {[F6865233](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F6865233/Screenshot_2019-03-22_at_13.52.27.png), size=full} {[F6865235](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F6865235/Screenshot_2019-03-22_at_13.52.34.png), size=full} In the long run it would really be nice if this information was merged with the redo-panel though. It makes no sense to have this information be duplicated. If the operator adjustments/redo panel used the horizontal 'strip' design, one can imagine it fitting quite nicely: {[F6865279](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F6865279/Screenshot_2019-03-22_at_14.08.49.png), size=full} This gives an example of how we could solve it by combining it with the redo panel.
Zino Guerr commented 2019-05-26 01:36:25 +02:00
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Zino Guerr commented 2019-05-26 01:36:25 +02:00
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while this task is clearly low priority for 2.80, but the recent conversation in the devtalk brought to my attention that this issue is also apparent in other editors like Node,Graph,Dope sheet..etc where Info Bars take over the headers, they should also be solved along this one too.

while this task is clearly low priority for 2.80, but the recent conversation in the devtalk brought to my attention that this issue is also apparent in other editors like Node,Graph,Dope sheet..etc where Info Bars take over the headers, they should also be solved along this one too.
Abid Maqbool commented 2019-05-26 08:58:08 +02:00
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Tchelet Levi commented 2019-05-26 22:02:08 +02:00
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Tchelet Levi commented 2019-05-26 23:46:11 +02:00
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That is a very interesting idea William!
I am a bit indecisive whether or not this solution will take up a lot of space on the viewport however.
I imagine with tools such as the Inset tool where a lot of options need to be displayed, it will take up quite a lot of space, wont it?

Pressing the down button to get more information in real time while you are working on the model will especially take up a lot of space and could be quite a hindrance in my opinion, don't you think?

That is a very interesting idea William! I am a bit indecisive whether or not this solution will take up a lot of space on the viewport however. I imagine with tools such as the Inset tool where a lot of options need to be displayed, it will take up quite a lot of space, wont it? Pressing the down button to get more information in real time while you are working on the model will especially take up a lot of space and could be quite a hindrance in my opinion, don't you think?
Zino Guerr commented 2019-05-28 00:01:02 +02:00
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@MizManFryinPan i agree with you, there is also this one in the normals menu which is probably the widest one, how are they going to fit it with the Redo Panel?the shorctus are also duplicated in the status bar which makes no sense to me...i think this needs a whole revamp from scratch.

PP.jpg

@MizManFryinPan i agree with you, there is also this one in the normals menu which is probably the widest one, how are they going to fit it with the Redo Panel?the shorctus are also duplicated in the status bar which makes no sense to me...i think this needs a whole revamp from scratch. ![PP.jpg](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F7073003/PP.jpg)
Rafael Chacon commented 2019-05-28 22:48:09 +02:00
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Rafael Chacon commented 2019-05-28 22:48:09 +02:00
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the information of transformation (move, rotate and scale) and that of editing tools (Loop cut, bevel) appears in different places, in version 2.7x they used to be both in the same place, today it took me so much to find the amount of Bevel segments that write a bug report thinking that it was not in the interface only to find it at the last moment{F7076793}

the information of transformation (move, rotate and scale) and that of editing tools (Loop cut, bevel) appears in different places, in version 2.7x they used to be both in the same place, today it took me so much to find the amount of Bevel segments that write a bug report thinking that it was not in the interface only to find it at the last moment{[F7076793](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F7076793/Segments_Data_2.png)}
Piotr Adamowicz commented 2019-06-06 23:13:27 +02:00
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Piotr Adamowicz commented 2019-06-06 23:13:27 +02:00
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If you're going to put yet another obscuring floating element in the content area, at least make it movable please, and provide a non-obscuring alternative, like printing that info in the status bar.

If you're going to put yet another obscuring floating element in the content area, at least make it movable please, and provide a non-obscuring alternative, like printing that info in the status bar.
KiJeon commented 2019-06-07 08:38:29 +02:00
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KiJeon commented 2019-06-07 08:38:29 +02:00
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@MadMinstrel Agreed. I don't mind a few "obscuring floating element"s, but they should always be movable. Ideally, also resizable. And maybe dockable.

@MadMinstrel Agreed. I don't mind a few "obscuring floating element"s, but they should always be movable. Ideally, also resizable. And maybe dockable.
Abid Maqbool commented 2019-06-09 06:19:48 +02:00
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The post is becoming too complex & implement is will be so complex then this, I think.
The proposed bug/error/issue is not so complex. The solution could be simple. Just move the info from header to 3d Viewport like the info shows already:
image.png
I know it's not a perfect solution. but it can solve many problem. like hiding of 3d Gizmos while doing some operation and hiding of header...
For better improvement of the idea other speate post can be made like paper cut to gather info form users...
I think major prob/issues should be solved quickly as we can better improvements can be made time to time...

The post is becoming too complex & implement is will be so complex then this, I think. The proposed bug/error/issue is not so complex. The solution could be simple. Just move the info from header to 3d Viewport like the info shows already: ![image.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F7095748/image.png) I know it's not a perfect solution. but it can solve many problem. like hiding of 3d Gizmos while doing some operation and hiding of header... For better improvement of the idea other speate post can be made like paper cut to gather info form users... I think major prob/issues should be solved quickly as we can better improvements can be made time to time...
Russell commented 2019-10-05 22:10:56 +02:00
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I need to comment again on this one because many people don't seem to understand the problem or it'd be fixed by now. Just don't turn off the axis gizmo while using transform tools. That's it.
Here's what the screen looks like with the cube selected. I've circled what I'm calling the axis gizmo:
gizmos hiding 1.png

And then you hit G to transform and reach for an x, y, or z key to restrict motion along an axis. You've been rotating around and aren't sure which way you're facing so you look to the axis gizmo and it's GONE:
gizmos hiding 2.png

Why? The only time I ever need the thing is when I'm transforming something and that's the only time it's hidden. It's not interfering with the info in the top left of the viewport. Why is it hidden?
That's the bug in my opinion. Can we please have someone revisit this? Pretty please? With a cherry on top?

I need to comment again on this one because many people don't seem to understand the problem or it'd be fixed by now. Just don't turn off the axis gizmo while using transform tools. **That's it**. Here's what the screen looks like with the cube selected. I've circled what I'm calling the axis gizmo: ![gizmos hiding 1.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F7791562/gizmos_hiding_1.png) And then you hit G to transform and reach for an x, y, or z key to restrict motion along an axis. You've been rotating around and aren't sure which way you're facing so you look to the axis gizmo and it's **GONE**: ![gizmos hiding 2.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F7791557/gizmos_hiding_2.png) Why? The **only time** I ever need the thing is when I'm transforming something and that's the only time it's hidden. It's not interfering with the info in the top left of the viewport. Why is it hidden? That's the bug in my opinion. Can we please have someone revisit this? Pretty please? With a cherry on top?
Julien Kaspar commented 2019-10-29 15:05:59 +01:00
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Campbell Barton commented 2019-10-30 18:16:43 +01:00
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Could this design be finished to the point where it's a task a developer can implement it?

  • List all tools this would apply to.
  • Show how it would look (at least the initial version - colored text could be added later).
  • Problems, and how they will be addressed...
    • Overlapping toolbar/redo panel
 

*do we ignore this, or try solve it?*.

  • How center aligned text will manage staying centered while not jittering when numbers are adjusted.

    do we try to solve this? we can also draw text left aligned.

Could this design be finished to the point where it's a task a developer can implement it? - List all tools this would apply to. - Show how it would look (at least the initial version - colored text could be added later). - Problems, and how they will be addressed... - Overlapping toolbar/redo panel ``` ``` *do we ignore this, or try solve it?*. - How center aligned text will manage staying centered while not jittering when numbers are adjusted. *do we try to solve this? we can also draw text left aligned*.
marcuspollio commented 2019-11-09 00:42:34 +01:00
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marcuspollio commented 2019-11-09 00:42:34 +01:00
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CobraA commented 2020-01-28 17:48:42 +01:00
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CobraA commented 2020-01-28 17:48:42 +01:00
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Is there an estimate to fixing this? especially the top right corner with the navigation widgets.
Just small text at the bottom will do or combine it with the redo panel like William have said.

Is there an estimate to fixing this? especially the top right corner with the navigation widgets. Just small text at the bottom will do or combine it with the redo panel like William have said.
Kai Jægersen commented 2020-01-28 18:46:04 +01:00
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Aaron Carlisle commented 2020-02-10 17:45:02 +01:00
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Changed status from 'Needs User Info' to: 'Confirmed'

Changed status from 'Needs User Info' to: 'Confirmed'
Andrea Guerra commented 2020-03-19 17:26:04 +01:00
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Andrea Guerra commented 2020-03-19 17:26:04 +01:00
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is a real issue for me too, if yout hit G R o S you can't see any axis! :(

is a real issue for me too, if yout hit G R o S you can't see any axis! :(
marcuspollio commented 2020-03-20 10:14:49 +01:00
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Hi !

I just created a post on Devtalk to discuss issues and design for this task, so it does not fill here =D

Transform informations of Tools mode coherent and mode usable

Thanks !

Hi ! I just created a post on Devtalk to discuss issues and design for this task, so it does not fill here =D [Transform informations of Tools mode coherent and mode usable ](https://devtalk.blender.org/t/transform-informations-of-tools-made-coherent-and-more-usable/12305) Thanks !
Olaf Haag commented 2020-04-23 16:02:12 +02:00
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Paul Kotelevets commented 2020-05-28 00:54:12 +02:00
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Paul Kotelevets commented 2020-05-28 00:54:12 +02:00
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In #57712#645776, @frequencydistribution wrote:
Well, this is the thing you see every second:
blender_ui_problem.gif

Yes, even turning alpha off doesn't help.
BLINK UI.gif

> In #57712#645776, @frequencydistribution wrote: > Well, this is the thing you see every second: > ![blender_ui_problem.gif](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F6861890/blender_ui_problem.gif) Yes, even turning alpha off doesn't help. ![BLINK UI.gif](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F8558799/BLINK_UI.gif)
Russell commented 2020-05-28 01:04:17 +02:00
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It's not a paper cut. It's an oozing chest wound that's starting to smell bad.

It's not a paper cut. It's an oozing chest wound that's starting to smell bad.
XiaoDong Chang commented 2021-01-05 15:39:36 +01:00
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XiaoDong Chang commented 2021-01-05 15:39:36 +01:00
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Please modify this annoying feature, it is already 2021!

Please modify this annoying feature, it is already 2021!
XiaoDong Chang commented 2021-01-05 15:48:21 +01:00
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It is best to put the shortcut key display in the viewport, and you can turn off the display shortcut key, and then put the transformation information in the bottom status bar.

It is best to put the shortcut key display in the viewport, and you can turn off the display shortcut key, and then put the transformation information in the bottom status bar.
Lucas commented 2021-03-08 01:56:46 +01:00
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Lucas commented 2021-03-08 01:56:46 +01:00
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I agree with Xiao, best solution so far.

I agree with Xiao, best solution so far.
thin soldier commented 2021-12-28 22:48:32 +01:00
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thin soldier commented 2021-12-28 22:48:32 +01:00
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In #57712#646265, @WilliamReynish wrote:

{F6865279, size=full}

This gives an example of how we could solve it by combining it with the redo panel.

Would it be possible to implement this as an addon while we wait for a final decision to happen within the Blender team?

> In #57712#646265, @WilliamReynish wrote: > > {[F6865279](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F6865279/Screenshot_2019-03-22_at_14.08.49.png), size=full} > > This gives an example of how we could solve it by combining it with the redo panel. Would it be possible to implement this as an addon while we wait for a final decision to happen within the Blender team?
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Reference: blender/blender#57712
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