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Outliner Improvements
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Description

In Blender 2.8 we introduced Collections to manage our objects and scenes. This places more emphasis and reliance on the Outliner, and so now is a good time to make additional improvements to how it works.

Here are some areas that have potential to make the Outliner more delightful and easy to use.

Details

Type
Design

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Wo!262 (wo262) added a subscriber: Wo!262 (wo262).
Wo!262 (wo262) removed a subscriber: Wo!262 (wo262).

Will you consider adding unlinked collections management to this design document? I made a small proposal to not use another outliner for orphan collections. I hope you check it out https://blender.community/c/rightclickselect/ltcbbc/

Well, sounds nice and very welcome.
I've ordered to my developer selecting all outliner object between two selected (we've got too long lists for box selecting) just a few days ago, so Shift and Control modifiers are very needed.

@Wo!262 (wo262): Yes, an easier way to add unlinked Collections is fairly important I think. Currently it's both an arduous process, and very difficult to find.

I can think of several ways to go about this, one of which is something similar to your proposal.

@William Reynish (billreynish) : not sure if this is off-topic, but could we add multi-object-drag-drop for parenting to the list?
(right now it is possible to multi-object-drag-drop to collections -- but not to other objects [for parenting]... which seems a little inconsistent)

@Philipp Oeser (lichtwerk): yes, this was already added to the Paper Cuts list, but I added a link to it here too.

Hi, @William Reynish (billreynish) I am absolutely loving this improvements, they will make the "Outliner" more dynamic and more robust.
But would you take autoscroll-in-the-outliner into consideration?

I'm all for everything that's said in this proposal. The syncing of the selections could cause problems when a lot of linking is involved but that's why keeping it optional and either completely on or off is a great idea.

  1. Could you help me to understand why there is possible to change order of collections, by dragging in outliner but is impossible to rearrange objects order which are inside collections ? Isn't object rearranging also useful thing ? Or maybe it is possible but I didn't find how....
  2. Why Delete shortcut also works only with collection but not the objects ?
  1. Could you help me to understand why there is possible to change order of collections, by dragging in outliner but is impossible to rearrange objects order which are inside collections ? Isn't object rearranging also useful thing ? Or maybe it is possible but I didn't find how....
  2. Why Delete shortcut also works only with collection but not the objects ?
  1. because objects are autosorted
  2. to provide ability to clean scene structure, leaving content untouched.

I wanted answer more from usability point of view.

  1. As I see It limits users ability to tidy up structure of objects are there any usability benefits why it's restricted only to collections?
  2. Selecting thing in outliner, and then move mouse over 3D viewport (because then delete shortcut works) doesn't look like very convenient way to delete and it is inconsistent with other editors where delete - deletes. Also there is inconvenience the other way around when I select collection and move mouse cursor on 3D viewport delete shortcut doesn't work it works only in outliner.
  1. Well, Users are creating objects, that increases entropy.

Users cannot tidy up sorted lists, they just can bring a mess in it. If sorted list doesnot fits they needs, that means, that users messed up with object's naming.
So they have to wisely fix their naming or use collections to sort something out (as they were using layers in 2.79). Maybe both of them together.

  1. Try to ask for special shortcut like Shift+X for deep through-structural outliner selection remove.

@Dalai Felinto (dfelinto) Sorry I was not able to try it out. Maybe you can send me a build. I can't really figure out what the 3 levels of outliner visibility means from the description alone.

I think there's another helpful feature I'd like to propose:

Currently when creating a new collection either with the shortcut "C" or with the collection button in the top-right corner, it will create a new empty collection under the one that is actively selected (the white circle behind a collection).
Often times I want to create a collection with my selection of objects being automatically moved to the new collection. But currently I have to select the active collection, create a new collection there and then hit M in the 3D Viewport to move the selection to the new collection by navigating a possibly long menu with many submenus.
The proposed synced selection can help with this but I'd suggest to add this:

The hitting C or the top-right button it will create a new collection below the actively selected collection but when objects are selected it will move the selection into the newly created collection and place the new collection in the top-most collection that the selected objects are nested in.


So in this example selecting the Sphere and Cube and then hitting C to create a new collection, instead of resulting in this:

it should result in this:

Ctrl is currently used for linking so this can be used here as well. When hitting Ctrl + C or Ctrl clicking the button the objects could be linked into the new collection:

If the placement of the new collection should still be inside the actively selected collection then that would be fine as well. I guess this can give extra control but always requires some extra attention of which collection has the white circle currently.


Another feature that I'm not sure I proposed before but would save me a lot of time is this:

Currently these are the top options when RMB clicking a collection.

The option that I am missing is "Duplicate Hierarchy". When duplicating a collection it links all contents instead of duplicating them as well, which can be very useful , but most of the time I want to duplicate the contents as well.
There's no easy way of doing this currently sicne duplicating the collections will always link the contents, so I have to create new collections, rename them, duplicate the objects I want in them and move them to the new collection, rinse & repeat for every nested collection.

Often times I want to create a collection with my selection of objects being automatically moved to the new collection.

Using M in the 2D viewport you can do just that. At the "bottom" of each of the levels of the menu you can move the objects to a new collection.

The option that I am missing is "Duplicate Hierarchy". When duplicating a collection it links all contents instead of duplicating them as well, which can be very useful , but most of the time I want to duplicate the contents as well.

Sure I believe we could have this.

@Dalai Felinto (dfelinto)

Using M in the 2D viewport you can do just that. At the "bottom" of each of the levels of the menu you can move the objects to a new collection.

True. It would be nice to have the possibility to do this in the Outliner as well though. Also in the M menu there is no way of creating a new nested collection.
The frustrating thing for me is navigating a dozen sub-menus when pressing M when I already have everything visible and selected in the Outliner as well.
Being able to do it in the Outliner as well would mean that I can do it all in the same Editor without needing the 3D Viewport for Outliner management and no extra long popup Menus.

This is really going the right way! With all items in this proposal implemented, and Shift-Click to fill selection enabled, the outliner finally becomes almost perfect, solving all previous limitations and shortcomings.

Only thing missing is making the toggles (visibility, selectability and renderability) affect all selected items, rather than just the one clicked, if possible.

Great work.

2: Select all items in-between when holding shift / select individual items by holding Ctrl.
When holding shift to select multiple items, we can select all the items in between.
Users can then use Ctrl to select individual items without the ones in between.

This should probably be reversed to match current selection paradigm :

  • shift to select another element
  • ctrl to select path

This should probably be reversed to match current selection paradigm :

  • shift to select another element
  • ctrl to select path

That is the inverse to the current industry standard. The selection paradigm should follow what Microsoft has been doing with the File Explorer for the last three decades, otherwise new users will be confused.

The current outliner selection method and what you propose could be options, just as right click select has become.

I have some more notes on improving the Outliner usability:

  • Drag over arrows to open/close multiple collections in a row instead of moving collections. This makes it consistent with opening tabs in for example the properties editor.
  • The right click operators "Hide/Show one level" should only effect the selected collections instead of the entire outliner. When the user wants to affect all collections they can select the scene collection first.
  • Add a "Duplicate Hierarchy" option. Currently there is no easy way to duplicate a collection while also duplicating its nested components. Since there is also a "Delete Hierarchy" option this addition makes sense.
  • "Duplicate Objects" and 'Duplicate Linked" should be possible from the Outliner without selecting and duplicating objects in the viewport. The latter often results in objects being duplicated in every collection that they are linked to. Being able to box select some object with the Outliner specific selection and duplicating them in only that sepcific collection should be possible.
  • Make it more clear that a selected object or collection is within another collection. Currently this is indicated by a slightly white highlighted circle around one of the nested items to the right of a collection but this is way too subtle to be visible. On bigger icons like instanced collections the circle is barely even visible at all.
  • With very big collection nesting and long collection names it happens that the names are blocked by the restriction columns to the right. There is apparently a limit to how far you can scroll sideways and eventually long names will be obscured to the right, forcing you to enlarging the Outliner even more.
  • When selecting a linked collection show the highlight for every linked version as well. When selecting an object it will get a highlight in every outliner collection it is linked to. This sort of indicator should also be added for collections.
  • And if it's not too complicated: When opening an instanced collection, being able to further open the nested collection within, further adjusting and changing assets even from the instance (for example selecting an object and making changes to the material assigned to it).

@Julien Kaspar (JulienKaspar): it’s a good list. It’s often times getting these kinds of smaller details right that make a real big difference. I would hope there’s time before release to look at improving the Outliner. We are relying on it more now, and it has some real annoyances still.

Since I had what I thought was a bug labeled as a feature request, I guess I'll add that here then instead:

  • Shift click (instead of control click) an eye icon to hide unselected, to bring parity with the Shift-H shortcut, and make this a toggle (or alt click to bring back, for Alt-H parity if you wish).
  • Control click an eye icon (or display icon) to also hide all of the children of that node in the tree. This should also be a toggle.

There is also need in "Isolate selected Collections" option on RMB menu, that will turn off every collection except collections that are not selected in outliner, or which contains no selected objects in outliner.
So if some objects selected in outliner belongs to 3 collections, all 3 of them will stay turned on, other unselected collections will turn off.

Previously, in 2.79, we made such tool in Bargool_1D_tools , called "Isolate layers".
It leaves turned on only those layers, that selected objects belongs to.
Simple, and extremely useful option for complex scenes, while layers were cumulative, just like collections.

I see it a bit confusing to link a collection of the blender file to the scene. I think it would be useful to call them from Layer View directly. Even a pop-up menu that shows all the collections and allows you to link and unlink directly, would be very useful, so you do not have to switch between Outlinier modes.

@Albert (wevon): Yes I thought of this too. Adding unlinked collections to your scene is still too obscure and difficult to find.

I support with both hands this outliner design features. They will make outliner both as mentioned more efficient and at the same time less confusing, but also closer to a 3ds max / Maya / other 3d apps outliner way of working which is good for new artists coming from other software.

@Dalai Felinto (dfelinto) @William Reynish (billreynish) I think I have found another thing that can be improved in the outliner.


If you are using "Show Active" in the outliner it will only show the selection in the first collection it appears in. This even happens when the object is just parented but not actually inside the collection itself.
It probably makes more sense to just show the selection in all collections.