New curves object type #68981
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Reference: blender/blender#68981
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Status: Under development by the geometry nodes team. Accessible though the "Empty Hair" primitive. Grooming workflow solid, other areas still WIP
Overview
FILTER_IDbitsRelevant links:
Links
I would be happy to give feedback to developers, since I'm doing a lot of grooming at work (both blender and other softwares).
Full google doc proposal (this proposal could be further developed)
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VWs_-BkqZ80DcyJitXG3W0bwc71K68oKLGhFkqtZ54w/edit#heading=h.7p2vvzqugwvs
same proposal on right click select
https://blender.community/c/rightclickselect/l1bbbc/
You could integrate HairNet in Blender 2.81
HairNet
This creates a Hair from Curve
Demo: Creating Braid in Blender by Nazar Noschenko
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If the particles Hair system will be reworked could we give more features for Scattering things around ?
This is how 95% of users will use the hair system for. And we need some IMPORTANT missing features. Like camera clipping, bounding box for preventing intersection and get clean border, distribute the particles by slope and altitude, a better link between a cycle/eevee material to the particle distribution, and many more really important features/flaw...I try to regroup everything Scatterinng related in this topic. https://devtalk.blender.org/t/future-particle-hair-nodes-discussion-and-everything-wrong-with-hair-particles/9576/39 I will do a proposal when I found everything.
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New hair systemto New hair object typeAdded subscriber: @DuarteRamos
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fd53b72871This issue was referenced by blender/cycles@bbf02be98c
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Commisioner for the hair object type here.
I have written an overview (work in progress) of the hair object type from a user point of perspective. It's mainly focused on node types and what type of data that needs to be stored per curve and vertices/points. The goal is to have a hair system that works both for real time production (games) and off line rendering (vfx / general cg production). My experience comes from grooming in Blender, Houdini, Zbrush and Maya.
The slides in the link below has been discussed with Project leader: @Sebastián Barschkis (sebbas) 2020-06-01. Most text regarding nodes is written as comments to avoid visual clutter. First focus is nodes, but I can see the use of new operators in the future such as converting curves to hair and vice versa.
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1OSVFRQEqPoc92m6_vgWbY0Ar71EcfHNwqIhVdro5CUU/edit?usp=sharing
@DanielBystedt can you do upload this here in PDF, or create a wiki document (or even a design task) with this? external links tend to be invalid after awhile. Thank you
@dfelinto
Sure thing! What would be most suitable? Design task or wiki? I'd like to learn what the best approach is so I can do stuff like this properly in the future.
If Design task:
I guess I should tag it with "Nodes & Physics" so it ends up in the workboard
https://developer.blender.org/project/board/101/
Should it go in the "long term" slot of the workboard?
If wiki:
I haven't created a wiki page before and feel pretty unsure how to proceed. Is it somewhere here it should be created? https://wiki.blender.org/wiki/Main_Page
Given that the design may change during the project I would suggest a design task. Once the project is more mature we then move it to the wiki. And yes, Long-Term would be the right column, thank you!
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Hi again! I have migrated my google doc stuff into two design tasks
Hair object - Node types design
https://developer.blender.org/T78515
Hair object - design
https://developer.blender.org/T78606
I have set these tasks as child tasks of this task. Perhaps it would be a good idea to add them into Relevant links: in this task?
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@sebbas will likely start working on this project soon, So he, @JacquesLucke and I had a meeting about it. The idea of having a hair datablock and modifiers is quite clear and agreed on.
The main decision to make is the scope of this project and how to get to a minimum viable product (MVP) as quickly as possible. The main target of this is projects like open movies at the Blender Institute. That means features like hair cards for game engines and related tools and modifiers are not a priority. Further, since we want to get something working as quickly as possible, geometry nodes for hair with lots of small nodes for fine control are also not the first thing we will implement.
Rather, we would start by implemented the most important modifiers in the modifier stack for hair: Distribute, Children, Dynamics, Deform along Surface and various Shaping modifiers. We envision the modifier stack will remain after the addition of geometry nodes, as an interface with high level parameters for a more low level / technical node graph (see also particle nodes discussion). These modifiers would also naturally be available as nodes in geometry nodes later on, but they will work fine in the modifier stack to start with.
There is a long list of tasks in the topic description, but in order to get to an MVP they should not be done in the current order. Rather we would start with these steps in order to get towards something that works:
This also means that most of the contents of the design docs by @DanielBystedt are not yet relevant in the first stage of getting an MVP. Rather adding more advanced tools and nodes would come later, and as far as I can tell the specifics of those designs do not require changes to the basic design presented in this task.
It's interesting to consider the way Pixar internally does hair with the PxHair USD schema , as an (additional?) workflow we could support.
Current Blender hair works by having a set of guide curves, and then child hairs are generated from them using a fixed algorithm and various parameters. With nodes to generate child hairs there will be more user control, but still not at the level where you can add, remove or position the final hairs in edit mode.
The way the PxHair works is that there is a complete hair rest pose, which is then deformed using guide curves, rather than being generated from guide curves. This deformation works like an armature modifier, where each hair has an associated set of guide curves with weights (instead of bones).
This is compatible with the design and could be implemented by supporting hair vertex groups, a deform modifier and some algorithm to generate guide curves and bind to the high res hairs. But we will need a child hair modifier regardless to generate the rest pose, so implementing such a guide curve deformation system can be done after the MVP.
Amazing new that this project is about to start soon! Thanks for all the info @brecht.
I understand what you are saying and I completely agree that a MVP with the bullet points that you listed is a great way of starting the project. I'm available for testing and feedback, so feel free to reach out to me (@DanielBystedt ) at blender.chat
What is still unclear to me in the current design is at which point hair editmode comes into play.
DistributeorDeform along Surfacemodifiers, this sounds like initial data (something like what you can control in theEmissionpanel atm)ChildrenandShaping(maybe I lack clear description of what functionality is included in Shaping) modifiers would build on top of editmode data.Distributemodifier? TheDeform along Surfacemodifier?Maybe this has been discussed already (not sure because I was not in said meeting), would be nice to have that knowledge shared in this thread as well.
@lichtwerk, it would work the same as meshes, all modifiers work on top of edit mode data. If you want to edit the output of the Distribute modifier, you apply the modifier.
It's up to the user which modifiers they want to apply or keep in the stack. You might want to apply some Shaping modifier to the parent hairs, or you might want to edit every hair individually and apply the Children modifier.
Maybe the question is also about the
DistributeandDeform along Surfacemodifiers in general:If above is true, the question of my previous comments remains: does editmode work before or after?
I am trying to wrap my head around the concept of the
Deform along Surfacemodifier more:Shrinkwrapfor meshes? or is this more likeMesh Deform(needing something like binding information)?@brecht: OK, we were typing at the same time.
So, I guess this answers the questions I had, yes.
Will be interesting to see how the
DistributeandDeform Along Surfacebehave in the end with already existing editmode shaping, but I guess this is details to see while working on this.Actually, that one question remains: Is the
Distributemodifier actually responsible for creating the initial data [number of hairs etc.]? I assume it is not.Add Hairoperator needs to expose some more initial properties like number of hairs, segments? Or the hair datablock needs to?The Distribute modifier will create the actual hairs. It is not required before going into edit mode, because the Add tool there will be able to create hairs on the surface object. However for convenience, most of the time you would use a Distribute modifier and adding a new Hair object from the Add menu would already have such a modifier.
Perhaps we could implement a better distribute model than what we have currently in blender?
This for example: http://www.cemyuksel.com/research/sampleelimination/
Because of the more even and "natural" pattern users would often need fewer hairs to cover the mesh.
I bring this up because we could use this method to define a density of hairs. So when manually adding hairs in post to a surface, it would not add more hair to parts that are already dense enough.
I don't think it is possible to do this with the current "add hair" brush?
This distribution model looks great and due to its deterministic nature and should be considered for more than adding hairs but also removing/hiding them. For example this open the gates to more advanced hair data structures that would allow for much more performant and powerful combing. (analogous to multires sculpt) This has wide implications so is probably out of the scope of this task but the node based nature of this system should make it easier to create at a later date.
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Speaking about a distribution modifier, here's how we handle this in houdini :
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Hi! Has work started on this, yet? :)
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Just putting our two cents in that we would also like to see the basics asap, as we're upgrading one of the original Cosmos Laundromat characters as soon as the new hair (Fur for us) system is available.
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Has there been any new thoughts on this task? Scheduled for an alpha release?
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Hello,I want to know when the new hair will be released
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Hey guys, now that there's a few more curve tools in geometry nodes, at what point will this start to be tackled a bit? A new hair system is sorely needed, compared to other hair systems the one we have now is way behind
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I too would like to know if this will be updated at any time. It is rather difficult to work with realistic fur in blender without a new system..
This is an extremely interesting design. Is it going to be implemented anytime soon?
As always, looking for you to raise the priority of this over other things. We're modeling a cat that will need fur.
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OMG this will be an XGEN killer 🗡 I'm so Excited to see this in 3.X
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New hair object typeto New curves object typeAdded subscriber: @dodo-2
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FYI - I've created a task for supporting the new curves for USD export, but don't have permission to update this task
https://developer.blender.org/T102376
@SonnyCampbell_Unity, I've given you the permissions to edit tasks now.
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This is the thing that I am most excited about. Is there any hint for when
Python API
Add/remove curves and points
will be worked on?
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