"Regression" : Using normal or bump maps in cycles produces flat washed-out shading (caused by terminator softening) #74517
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Reference: blender/blender#74517
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System Information
Operating system: Windows 10 x64
Graphics card: GeForce GTX 1660 Dual OC
Blender Version
Broken: 2.81, 2.82, 2.83 from 2020-03-06 22:46
Worked: 2.80
Caused by
c3be14e151Short description of error
Using normal or bump maps in cycles produces flat washed-out results comparing to EEVEE.
The bug also appears in the latest 2.83 build, it affects both Diffuse and Principled Shader but not Glossy.
Normal Map and Bump nodes seem to produce identical results with the 2.80 version, so the problem lies with the Shader node itself.
Exact steps for others to reproduce the error
bug_report.blend
Added subscriber: @ttrevan
Cyclesto Using normal or bump maps in cycles produces flat washed-outUsing normal or bump maps in cycles produces flat washed-outto Using normal or bump maps in cycles produces flat washed-out shadingIf the same bump map used as an input to Displacement Node in Bump Only mode, shading works correctly
Changed status from 'Needs Triage' to: 'Confirmed'
Added subscribers: @LukasStockner, @lichtwerk
Caused by
c3be14e151.Interesting that the old codepath is still present for Displacement in bump-only mode...
Not sure if this is to be expected? So it is just a compromise? Should it be optional?
CC @LukasStockner
Added subscriber: @Vyach
Same problem
displacement + bump
Only Displacement
poke
Added subscriber: @DraX
Hello, I have this same problem in 3.0. :(
Also if insert a mapping node cycles just can't see any normal info anymore but EEVEE looks fine.
Added subscriber: @thinsoldier
Same problem exists in 3.1 and 3.2
Added subscriber: @Dawe69
Added subscriber: @Harvester
Added subscriber: @Memento
Added subscriber: @AndreasResch
Added subscriber: @scopelma
I made corner case example, may be this will allow to assume what happens with normals.
2022-09-04_09-43-12.mp4
no zero normal.blend
Added subscriber: @henmachuca
Same problem in 3.2.
Is there a solution or work around?
Added subscriber: @SteffenD
Has this issue been addressed?
I have to bump this thread as it is really annoying to only use the displacement node. Especially when mixing shaders. its still a problem! even in 4.0 Alpha... If We can get a note, if this bug will be addressed? pleas let us know
best
Daniel
Developers, please, fix such essential/core issues. It is much more important than any new feature, because it affects most of blender users. It affects those, who make game assets in Blender and roll big market. And issues with normals exists YEARS. It is not okay for work and for reputation of software among professionals.
Using normal or bump maps in cycles produces flat washed-out shadingto "Regression" : Using normal or bump maps in cycles produces flat washed-out shading (caused by terminator softening)For the record: This is/was not a bug, the normal correction was deliberately added and is working as intended.
For cases where it is not desired, 4.1 now has a "Bump Map Correction" option in material settings that you can disable to get uncorrected normals.
Hi @LukasStockner, I understand that this was deliberate, but can you explain why? What's the use case where someone would want flat washed-out shading that's inconsistent with EEVEE?
Normal maps, and more generally shading normals that deviate from the geometric normal, are a nonphysical hack that can cause all sorts of issues in physically-based renderers.
In this case, for specular/glossy BSDFs they cause black spots in reflections, and for diffuse BSDFs they cause inconsistent light falloff and an overly pronounced shadow terminator.
In the end, it's always a tradeoff, and in some cases you might want to ignore those issues and just use the normal map directly. However, if we do that, we get bug reports complaining about those other issues 😅 So, the default is to be safe, and (as of 4.1) allow users to override it if needed/wanted.
We've recently had a discussion about the on the Blenderartist forum where we compared the results of the Bump node, the Displacement (Bump Only) node and Octane Render. The Bump node results didn't look great - they were flat and washed out. Usually the Displacement (Bump Only) results looked much better, but lacked some overall falloff smoothness in a few cases. So none of the two version were completely satisfying. The Octane Render results looked better overall with tackling all the test scenes very well.
Maybe Lukas can take a look at that and share his insight about it. That would be nice. Here's the link to the discussion ... https://blenderartists.org/t/bump-node-vs-displacement-node-bump-only/1521604/1
All tests were done in Blender 4.1.