OpenColorIO 2.0 Upgrade #84819

New Issue

Brecht Van Lommel · 2021-01-18T13:26:44+01:00

Brecht Van Lommel commented

2021-01-18 13:26:44 +01:00

Code changes to make Blender build
Configuration file update
Update precompiled libraries (#83246 (VFX Reference Platform 2021 Compatibility))
Use new features
- Update configuration to use new features and useful builtin transforms
- Support menu categories for long lists of color space
- Check for performance improvements (especially with OpenGL render)

- [x] Code changes to make Blender build - [x] Configuration file update - [x] Update precompiled libraries (#83246 (VFX Reference Platform 2021 Compatibility)) - [ ] Use new features - [ ] Update configuration to use new features and useful builtin transforms - [ ] Support menu categories for long lists of color space - [ ] Check for performance improvements (especially with OpenGL render)

Brecht Van Lommel commented

2021-01-18 13:26:44 +01:00

Changed status from 'Needs Triage' to: 'Confirmed'

Brecht Van Lommel commented

2021-01-18 13:26:44 +01:00

Added subscribers: @Jeroen-Bakker, @brecht

Jeroen Bakker commented

2021-01-18 14:22:19 +01:00

Just to give a status of the branch.

The smaller changes have been done.
ocio wrapper in intern should be updated to use the ocio pipeline. I didn't see a way around this API change. In the tmp-ocio-v2 I was planning for these changes but haven't done any code changes.

Just to give a status of the branch. The smaller changes have been done. ocio wrapper in intern should be updated to use the ocio pipeline. I didn't see a way around this API change. In the tmp-ocio-v2 I was planning for these changes but haven't done any code changes.

Brecht Van Lommel changed title from ~~OpenColor 2.0 Upgrade~~ to OpenColorIO 2.0 Upgrade

2021-01-18 14:35:33 +01:00

Aaron Carlisle commented

2021-01-18 18:25:15 +01:00

Added subscriber: @Blendify

baoyu commented

2021-01-25 09:02:14 +01:00

Added subscriber: @baoyu

baoyu commented

2021-01-25 11:27:25 +01:00

Since blender integrated OCIO, there's no way to set RRT and ODT seperately. RRT and ODT are tied together and can't be changed to any useful transforms other than srgb.
Could we have full ACES support or at least fulfill: 1 ability to seperately set IDT, RRT and ODT; 2 more useful transforms like Display P.3, Rec 2020 etc. and a correct preview, output, compositor tools that respects the color management.

Since blender integrated OCIO, there's no way to set RRT and ODT seperately. RRT and ODT are tied together and can't be changed to any useful transforms other than srgb. Could we have full ACES support or at least fulfill: 1 ability to seperately set IDT, RRT and ODT; 2 more useful transforms like Display P.3, Rec 2020 etc. and a correct preview, output, compositor tools that respects the color management.

Sven-Hendrik Haase commented

2021-01-31 06:02:22 +01:00

Added subscriber: @svenstaro

Sven-Hendrik Haase commented

2021-01-31 06:02:22 +01:00

Hey guys, in Arch Linux we're currently in the middle of the opencolorio 2.0 rebuild and Blender is currently blocking these efforts. Could you perhaps give me an update on this?

Anton Raves commented

2021-01-31 08:33:09 +01:00

Added subscriber: @Memento

blender-admin commented

2021-01-31 19:35:00 +01:00

This issue was referenced by 1b4961b318

This issue was referenced by 1b4961b318f14064bc3c915da7206a74146af95d

blender-admin commented

2021-01-31 21:01:25 +01:00

This issue was referenced by 6b40ee608c

This issue was referenced by 6b40ee608c5a1dbe67870fab4b83cce4cc4b54f5

Brecht Van Lommel commented

2021-02-01 20:04:55 +01:00

I have a set of patches now for the upgrade, they still need to go through review.

There is no specific timeline for when this lands, I would guess somewhere in the next two weeks.

I have a set of patches now for the upgrade, they still need to go through review. There is no specific timeline for when this lands, I would guess somewhere in the next two weeks.

Sven-Hendrik Haase commented

2021-02-01 23:20:22 +01:00

Cool, thanks for the fast action. :)

For the time being, we've added an opencolorio1 package that Blender builds against but I'd like to drop that package again ASAP.

Cool, thanks for the fast action. :) For the time being, we've added an opencolorio1 package that Blender builds against but I'd like to drop that package again ASAP.

Steffen Dünner commented

2021-02-03 20:42:02 +01:00

Added subscriber: @SteffenD

Brecht Van Lommel commented

2021-02-08 14:32:37 +01:00

Added subscriber: @troy_s

Brecht Van Lommel commented

2021-02-08 14:32:37 +01:00

@troy_s, is there a plan to update Filmic for OpenColorIO 2.0?

OpenColorIO has builtin transform for ACES and various displays now, and they work based on the new display reference space concept, using CIE-XYZ [D65](https://archive.blender.org/developer/D65).
https://opencolorio.readthedocs.io/en/latest/configurations/ocio_v2_demo.html

I'd like to add more displays and the ACES RRT to our config, and later figure out how we can also ship a config with ACES refererence space.

However lookup tables like filmic_to_0-70_1-03.spi1d I guess contain both part of the view transform and display transform, and it's not clear to me how they were constructed and how they might be split.

@troy_s, is there a plan to update Filmic for OpenColorIO 2.0? OpenColorIO has builtin transform for ACES and various displays now, and they work based on the new display reference space concept, using `CIE-XYZ [D65](https://archive.blender.org/developer/D65)`. https://opencolorio.readthedocs.io/en/latest/configurations/ocio_v2_demo.html I'd like to add more displays and the ACES RRT to our config, and later figure out how we can also ship a config with ACES refererence space. However lookup tables like `filmic_to_0-70_1-03.spi1d` I guess contain both part of the view transform and display transform, and it's not clear to me how they were constructed and how they might be split.

Troy Sobotka commented

2021-02-08 15:09:03 +01:00

is there a plan to update Filmic for OpenColorIO 2.0?

Yes. I was letting the dust settle on v2.0 first.

OpenColorIO has builtin transform for ACES and various displays now, and they work based on the new display reference space concept, using CIE-XYZ D65.

Indeed. They came around to that idea finally, but sadly left out the display colourimetry aspect that would permit DCCs to query the chosen display colourimetry. It’s relevant to Blender due to the need to manage colour wheels, gradients, and composite in display linear. Might help to formulate a plan and have your voice there in the nearer future.

I'd like to add more displays and the ACES RRT to our config, and later figure out how we can also ship a config with ACES refererence space.

Should be rather trivial, but perhaps waiting for v2 might make more sense here. ACES brings so many broken facets to the table that people without an in-house colour scientist or colorist would likely be left helpless to repair things. ACES use is more or less as simple as a download, so not certain as to how much “better” it can get than the canonized sources.

The most prominent gains Blender can make is to get the UI up to a managed state. Integration with wider gamut spaces prior to that will be problematic.

Consider the output display encoded for BT.709 based displays. It is trivial to pull the inverse EOTF out of the lookups, and keep them display linear “clean”. It might be worth discussing how this can fit in nicely with Clem’s more recent display linear manipulations for overlays etc.

Available on Rocket if need be.

>is there a plan to update Filmic for OpenColorIO 2.0? Yes. I was letting the dust settle on v2.0 first. > OpenColorIO has builtin transform for ACES and various displays now, and they work based on the new display reference space concept, using CIE-XYZ [D65](https://archive.blender.org/developer/D65). Indeed. They came around to that idea finally, but sadly left out the display colourimetry aspect that would permit DCCs to query the chosen display colourimetry. It’s relevant to Blender due to the need to manage colour wheels, gradients, and composite in display linear. Might help to formulate a plan and have your voice there in the nearer future. > I'd like to add more displays and the ACES RRT to our config, and later figure out how we can also ship a config with ACES refererence space. Should be rather trivial, but perhaps waiting for v2 might make more sense here. ACES brings so many broken facets to the table that people without an in-house colour scientist or colorist would likely be left helpless to repair things. ACES use is more or less as simple as a download, so not certain as to how much “better” it can get than the canonized sources. The most prominent gains Blender can make is to get the UI up to a managed state. Integration with wider gamut spaces prior to that will be problematic. Consider the output display encoded for BT.709 based displays. It is trivial to pull the inverse EOTF out of the lookups, and keep them display linear “clean”. It might be worth discussing how this can fit in nicely with Clem’s more recent display linear manipulations for overlays etc. Available on Rocket if need be.

Brecht Van Lommel commented

2021-02-08 17:57:47 +01:00

In #84819#1108851, @troy_s wrote:
Indeed. They came around to that idea finally, but sadly left out the display colourimetry aspect that would permit DCCs to query the chosen display colourimetry. It’s relevant to Blender due to the need to manage colour wheels, gradients, and composite in display linear. Might help to formulate a plan and have your voice there in the nearer future.

As far as I know we have enough information from the config for handling color wheels, gradients, and compositing of UI elements. We really just need to do some operations in an approximately perceptually linear space, independent of the chosen display. And for that we can use cie_xyz_d65_interchange + some transform of our choice to a perceptually linear space.

Should be rather trivial, but perhaps waiting for v2 might make more sense here. ACES brings so many broken facets to the table that people without an in-house colour scientist or colorist would likely be left helpless to repair things. ACES use is more or less as simple as a download, so not certain as to how much “better” it can get than the canonized sources.

I will probably at the ACES RRT for the sRGB display since it fits in fine, and similar functionality is available in other apps.

The most prominent gains Blender can make is to get the UI up to a managed state. Integration with wider gamut spaces prior to that will be problematic.

Consider the output display encoded for BT.709 based displays. It is trivial to pull the inverse EOTF out of the lookups, and keep them display linear “clean”. It might be worth discussing how this can fit in nicely with Clem’s more recent display linear manipulations for overlays etc.

The displays are indeed less useful without more changes in Blender, though for file output it's still helpful. Probably will leave them out for now as long as they are not working with Filmic.

> In #84819#1108851, @troy_s wrote: > Indeed. They came around to that idea finally, but sadly left out the display colourimetry aspect that would permit DCCs to query the chosen display colourimetry. It’s relevant to Blender due to the need to manage colour wheels, gradients, and composite in display linear. Might help to formulate a plan and have your voice there in the nearer future. As far as I know we have enough information from the config for handling color wheels, gradients, and compositing of UI elements. We really just need to do some operations in an approximately perceptually linear space, independent of the chosen display. And for that we can use `cie_xyz_d65_interchange` + some transform of our choice to a perceptually linear space. > Should be rather trivial, but perhaps waiting for v2 might make more sense here. ACES brings so many broken facets to the table that people without an in-house colour scientist or colorist would likely be left helpless to repair things. ACES use is more or less as simple as a download, so not certain as to how much “better” it can get than the canonized sources. I will probably at the ACES RRT for the sRGB display since it fits in fine, and similar functionality is available in other apps. > The most prominent gains Blender can make is to get the UI up to a managed state. Integration with wider gamut spaces prior to that will be problematic. > > Consider the output display encoded for BT.709 based displays. It is trivial to pull the inverse EOTF out of the lookups, and keep them display linear “clean”. It might be worth discussing how this can fit in nicely with Clem’s more recent display linear manipulations for overlays etc. The displays are indeed less useful without more changes in Blender, though for file output it's still helpful. Probably will leave them out for now as long as they are not working with Filmic.

Troy Sobotka commented

2021-02-08 18:41:49 +01:00

As far as I know we have enough information from the config for handling color wheels, gradients, and compositing of UI elements. We really just need to do some operations in an approximately perceptually linear space, independent of the chosen display. And for that we can use cie_xyz_d65_interchange + some transform of our choice to a perceptually linear space.

Simple case would be a changing of transfer function, or flipping a wheel to reveal greyscale; the assumption of invertibility doesn’t work across a full colour transform necessarily.

In the case of differing display colourimetry for UI, it is required to have the transfer function characteristic available.

I will probably at the ACES RRT for the sRGB display since it fits in fine, and similar functionality is available in other apps.

Seems problematic given the working spaces are different?

> As far as I know we have enough information from the config for handling color wheels, gradients, and compositing of UI elements. We really just need to do some operations in an approximately perceptually linear space, independent of the chosen display. And for that we can use cie_xyz_d65_interchange + some transform of our choice to a perceptually linear space. Simple case would be a changing of transfer function, or flipping a wheel to reveal greyscale; the assumption of invertibility doesn’t work across a full colour transform necessarily. In the case of differing display colourimetry for UI, it is required to have the transfer function characteristic available. > I will probably at the ACES RRT for the sRGB display since it fits in fine, and similar functionality is available in other apps. Seems problematic given the working spaces are different?

Brecht Van Lommel commented

2021-02-08 19:09:09 +01:00

In #84819#1108971, @troy_s wrote:
Simple case would be a changing of transfer function, or flipping a wheel to reveal greyscale; the assumption of invertibility doesn’t work across a full colour transform necessarily.

In the case of differing display colourimetry for UI, it is required to have the transfer function characteristic available.

Maybe we're talking about different things, but as far as I know we only need our chosen perceptually linear space to be invertible. Converting to the actual display space would always be in one direction only, at the very end.

Seems problematic given the working spaces are different?

Not sure how, going from a smaller to a wider gamut working space doesn't lose any information. It just means you're not taking advantage of the wider gamut.

> In #84819#1108971, @troy_s wrote: > Simple case would be a changing of transfer function, or flipping a wheel to reveal greyscale; the assumption of invertibility doesn’t work across a full colour transform necessarily. > > In the case of differing display colourimetry for UI, it is required to have the transfer function characteristic available. Maybe we're talking about different things, but as far as I know we only need our chosen perceptually linear space to be invertible. Converting to the actual display space would always be in one direction only, at the very end. > Seems problematic given the working spaces are different? Not sure how, going from a smaller to a wider gamut working space doesn't lose any information. It just means you're not taking advantage of the wider gamut.

Troy Sobotka commented

2021-02-08 22:29:27 +01:00

@brecht Here’s a posting from the OCIO listing. Might be useful to add on the proper additional DCC functionality to Blender?

Add OCIO support to FFmpeg or another FOSS project
An important effort for OCIO is expanding the libraries and applications where OCIO is implemented. Users have specifically called out FFmpeg as a library and command-line tool where they would like to see OCIO support, but any other FOSS project leveraged by digital artists or production pipelines could be considered. This could also include upgrading an existing implementation to support the OCIO v2 API and leverage new functionality.
Special skills: Familiarity with prospective host library or tool, and knowledge of working with image buffers and authoring plugins.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sa68Cjq0TzSYFg2xhf2w2FFAQ1In7G391iINWKXfDo8/edit

@brecht Here’s a posting from the OCIO listing. Might be useful to add on the proper additional DCC functionality to Blender? >Add OCIO support to FFmpeg or another FOSS project >An important effort for OCIO is expanding the libraries and applications where OCIO is implemented. Users have specifically called out FFmpeg as a library and command-line tool where they would like to see OCIO support, but any other FOSS project leveraged by digital artists or production pipelines could be considered. This could also include upgrading an existing implementation to support the OCIO v2 API and leverage new functionality. >Special skills: Familiarity with prospective host library or tool, and knowledge of working with image buffers and authoring plugins. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sa68Cjq0TzSYFg2xhf2w2FFAQ1In7G391iINWKXfDo8/edit

Troy Sobotka commented

2021-02-08 22:37:07 +01:00

Not sure how, going from a smaller to a wider gamut working space doesn't lose any information. It just means you're not taking advantage of the wider gamut.

All of the assumptions for the ACES chain is from AP1 / ACEScg. Going from BT.709 based default primaries to AP1 and then out the door via the RRT etc. doesn’t make any sense here?

Maybe we're talking about different things, but as far as I know we only need our chosen perceptually linear space to be invertible.

Imagine a colour wheel where the image maker wants to select a colour based on greyscale. Here the displayed buffer is not invertible, so the UI buffer would be uni-directional. The mouse pick would peek into the UI buffer pre-rendering transform in this instance.

Same sort of idea would apply for show LUTs etc, where the image maker may want to choose the colour based on how it appears from the show LUT rendering, and those too may not be invertible.

Finally, consider the case of data where the UI would be able to use one of the V2 transforms for data for representation.

> Not sure how, going from a smaller to a wider gamut working space doesn't lose any information. It just means you're not taking advantage of the wider gamut. All of the assumptions for the ACES chain is from AP1 / ACEScg. Going from BT.709 based default primaries to AP1 and then out the door via the RRT etc. doesn’t make any sense here? > Maybe we're talking about different things, but as far as I know we only need our chosen perceptually linear space to be invertible. Imagine a colour wheel where the image maker wants to select a colour based on greyscale. Here the displayed buffer is not invertible, so the UI buffer would be uni-directional. The mouse pick would peek into the UI buffer pre-rendering transform in this instance. Same sort of idea would apply for show LUTs etc, where the image maker may want to choose the colour based on how it appears from the show LUT rendering, and those too may not be invertible. Finally, consider the case of data where the UI would be able to use one of the V2 transforms for data for representation.

step-ani-motion commented

2021-03-26 09:48:48 +01:00

Added subscriber: @STEP-ANI-MOTION

Vladislav Macíček commented

2021-04-01 22:41:55 +02:00

Added subscriber: @Aeraglyx

Alexey Adamitsky commented

2021-06-03 08:15:23 +02:00

Added subscriber: @AlexeyAdamitsky

Evan Wilson commented

2021-07-17 00:24:09 +02:00

Added subscriber: @EAW

baoyu commented

2021-09-03 12:18:17 +02:00

The OCIO 2.1 has been released now. Would that be mature enough?
Though, ACES v2's gamut compression is still in a slow progress... and it's planned to be ready in early 2022 according to the official open plan video conf.

The OCIO 2.1 has been released now. Would that be mature enough? Though, ACES v2's gamut compression is still in a slow progress... and it's planned to be ready in early 2022 according to the official open plan video conf.

Brecht Van Lommel commented

2021-10-28 15:28:09 +02:00

Changed status from 'Confirmed' to: 'Archived'

Brecht Van Lommel closed this issue

2021-10-28 15:28:09 +02:00

Brecht Van Lommel commented

2021-10-28 15:28:09 +02:00

Follding into #68926 (Color Management Improvements).

Zijun Zhou commented

2022-02-16 21:01:32 +01:00

Added subscriber: @Eary

Zijun Zhou commented

2022-02-16 21:01:32 +01:00

A question. Is OCIO v2's aliases feature supported yet? This is an important feature to keep different configs (potentially new official config to ship with Blender) compatible with older *.blend files!

A question. Is OCIO v2's aliases feature supported yet? This is an important feature to keep different configs (potentially new official config to ship with Blender) compatible with older *.blend files! ![image.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F12870315/image.png)

Troy Sobotka commented

2022-02-16 21:12:54 +01:00

They are.

I've implemented them in the testing trial configuration here...
https://github.com/sobotka/AgX

Seems that "Filmic" as an alias still shits the sheets with:
Color management: scene view "Filmic" not found, setting default "Display Native".

Which I suspect is because it's probably hard coded somewhere? I've included all the aliases.

They are. I've implemented them in the testing trial configuration here... https://github.com/sobotka/AgX Seems that "Filmic" as an alias still shits the sheets with: `Color management: scene view "Filmic" not found, setting default "Display Native".` Which I suspect is because it's probably hard coded somewhere? I've included all the aliases.

Brecht Van Lommel commented

2022-02-16 21:18:48 +01:00

You can define aliases of color spaces, there are no aliases for views as far as I know.

Troy Sobotka commented

2022-02-16 21:22:04 +01:00

Good point.

In AgX, in order to make it more compatible with other DCCs, I've related all of the transforms into ColorSpaceTransforms. Perhaps it makes sense to point the Blender code at role?

Good point. In AgX, in order to make it more compatible with other DCCs, I've related all of the transforms into `ColorSpaceTransform`s. Perhaps it makes sense to point the Blender code at role?

Zijun Zhou commented

2022-02-16 21:27:39 +01:00

In #84819#1308897, @troy_s wrote:
I've included all the aliases.

I saw it
https://blenderartists.org/t/feedback-development-filmic-baby-step-to-a-v2/1361663/10

For some reason it doesn't seem to work on my end? Or am I mistaken?

In #84819#1308897, @troy_s wrote:
Seems that "Filmic" as an alias still shits the sheets
...
Which I suspect is because it's probably hard coded somewhere?

Would this also be the reason for Non-Color/Generic Data etc. not working on my end?

> In #84819#1308897, @troy_s wrote: > I've included all the aliases. I saw it https://blenderartists.org/t/feedback-development-filmic-baby-step-to-a-v2/1361663/10 For some reason it doesn't seem to work on my end? Or am I mistaken? > In #84819#1308897, @troy_s wrote: > Seems that "Filmic" as an alias still shits the sheets > ... > Which I suspect is because it's probably hard coded somewhere? Would this also be the reason for Non-Color/Generic Data etc. not working on my end? ![image.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F12870329/image.png)

Dmitry commented

2022-09-11 10:17:32 +02:00

Added subscriber: @Rockbard

Emi Martinez commented

2023-01-29 20:32:04 +01:00

Added subscriber: @Emi_Martinez

Thomas Dinges added this to the 2.90 milestone 2023-02-08 16:25:39 +01:00

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OpenColorIO 2.0 Upgrade #84819