Attribute spreadsheet for attribute debugging #85654

New Issue

Dalai Felinto · 2021-02-15T14:22:18+01:00

Dalai Felinto commented

2021-02-15 14:22:18 +01:00

We need a design for the editor/region where users will inspect their "node-tree" data.

Needs inspection, not necessarily editing, but it would be nice to edit it.
It could support non-node data as well. (e.g., to inspect a whole mesh).
It should be able to inspect not only the end of the node-tree, but a snapshot of it (a socket or link).
Instances are to be shown as instance- meaning, the user can use that editor to find which part of the tree is forcing the instances to be made real (e.g., by inspecting one socket at a time).

Note: There is already an experimental implementation, but it uses the outliner: D8637.

Design

It still needs a mockup.

This is a new editor that allows users to inspect the (geometry) data of the active object/node. It focus on showing one data set at a time, so there is no mixing of volume and mesh data, or even face and vertices data. It supports different filters, both to slice the spreadsheet table "horizontally" or "vertically".

Complete Specifications

Those are options based on the use case where we are looking only at geometry data. In the future this can also support multiple objects (e.g., to edit the power of different lights).

Spreadsheet Editor - pinning supported
Context Data - which data to show

Object - The active object fully evaluated (with all its modifiers).
Modifier - The active modifier of the active object.
Original object - The active object original data.
Node - The active node of the active modifier of the active object.

Domain

Mesh → Vertex
Mesh → Edge
Mesh → Face
Mesh → Corner
Volume Grid → Voxels
Point Cloud → Points
Hair → Strand

Vertical Filter
- Attribute Names (bonus if it supports wildcards: MyAttri*)
- Category (Built-in, User, Nodes)
- Data-Type (Float, Vector) [not sure we need this]
Horizontal Filter

Selected mesh
Attribute value (for instance a range)
Geometry Tag (e.g., vertex groups, but also eventually more limited boolean only tags #85369

Decoration

Units
Color as floats
Vector as floats

Minimum Viable Product

What is the initial target to make this useful and master-ready:

New Editor - "Spreadsheet".
Read-only - no way to edit values.
Only working for the active object fully evaluated - no active node, no active modifier.
Only mesh data, only vertices
Row filter: "(edit mesh) selected"
Editor icon

We need a design for the editor/region where users will inspect their "node-tree" data. * Needs inspection, not necessarily editing, but it would be nice to edit it. * It could support non-node data as well. (e.g., to inspect a whole mesh). * It should be able to inspect not only the end of the node-tree, but a snapshot of it (a socket or link). * Instances are to be shown as instance- meaning, the user can use that editor to find which part of the tree is forcing the instances to be made real (e.g., by inspecting one socket at a time). Note: There is already an experimental implementation, but it uses the outliner: [D8637](https://archive.blender.org/developer/D8637). --- ### Design *It still needs a mockup.* This is a new editor that allows users to inspect the (geometry) data of the active object/node. It focus on showing one data set at a time, so there is no mixing of volume and mesh data, or even face and vertices data. It supports different filters, both to slice the spreadsheet table "horizontally" or "vertically". ### Complete Specifications Those are options based on the use case where we are looking only at geometry data. In the future this can also support multiple objects (e.g., to edit the power of different lights). * Spreadsheet Editor - pinning supported * Context Data - which data to show - Object - The active object fully evaluated (with all its modifiers). - Modifier - The active modifier of the active object. - Original object - The active object original data. - Node - The active node of the active modifier of the active object. * Domain - Mesh → Vertex - Mesh → Edge - Mesh → Face - Mesh → Corner - Volume Grid → Voxels - Point Cloud → Points - Hair → Strand * Vertical Filter - Attribute Names (bonus if it supports wildcards: `MyAttri*`) - Category (Built-in, User, Nodes) - Data-Type (Float, Vector) [not sure we need this] * Horizontal Filter - Selected mesh - Attribute value (for instance a range) - Geometry Tag (e.g., vertex groups, but also eventually more limited boolean only tags `#85369` * Decoration - Units - Color as floats - Vector as floats ### Minimum Viable Product What is the initial target to make this useful and master-ready: * New Editor - "Spreadsheet". * Read-only - no way to edit values. * Only working for the active object fully evaluated - no active node, no active modifier. * Only mesh data, only vertices * Row filter: "(edit mesh) selected" * Editor icon

Dalai Felinto self-assigned this 2021-02-15 14:22:18 +01:00

Dalai Felinto commented

2021-02-15 14:22:18 +01:00

Added subscriber: @dfelinto

Dalai Felinto removed their assignment 2021-02-15 14:50:26 +01:00

Dalai Felinto commented

2021-02-18 14:08:05 +01:00

![spreadsheet.jpg](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F9814841/spreadsheet.jpg)

Miro Horváth commented

2021-02-18 14:12:00 +01:00

Added subscriber: @MiroHorvath

Dalai Felinto commented

2021-02-22 19:13:22 +01:00

Mockup for the MVP

Clarifications

Note: seam is just an example of a boolean value. It is not supported by vertices.

### Mockup for the MVP ![mockup-v2.jpg](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F9828058/mockup-v2.jpg) ### Clarifications Note: `seam` is just an example of a boolean value. It is not supported by vertices. ![mockup-v2-notes.jpg](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F9828057/mockup-v2-notes.jpg)

Dalai Felinto commented

2021-02-23 19:51:06 +01:00

{F9832283, size=full}

{[F9832283](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F9832283/image.png), size=full}

Some User commented

2021-02-23 20:21:19 +01:00

Added subscriber: @someuser

Some User commented

2021-02-23 20:21:19 +01:00

in addition to those stats (colums/rows total/visible), i suggest to add attributes count total/visible

Steffen Dünner commented

2021-02-24 09:50:31 +01:00

Added subscriber: @SteffenD

Dalai Felinto commented

2021-02-25 18:36:36 +01:00

I started to move the docs here: https://wiki.blender.org/wiki/Source/Editors/Spreadsheet

Vitalik commented

2021-02-25 23:45:16 +01:00

Added subscriber: @ArtLaab

Dalai Felinto commented

2021-02-26 17:34:50 +01:00

No description provided.

-

Hans Goudey commented

2021-03-01 23:42:48 +01:00

Added subscriber: @HooglyBoogly

Hans Goudey commented

2021-03-01 23:42:48 +01:00

On the topic of the header row for vector attributes

This is the original prototype from Brecht. I don't have a strong feeling about the black background, but I think the way the attribute name isn't repeated for every axis is really nice

{F9858082 size=full}

Does anyone using the spreadsheet editor not understand the implicit XYZ order of vectors? I don't think we have to include it, and this provides the benefits:

Attributes with long names don't take up way too much space
There are fewer vertical lines, making the editor less noisy
The only lines are between attributes, making it easier to make the distinction further down in the sheet
We don't have the ugly capital X Y Z after the lowercase attribute name : P

**On the topic of the header row for vector attributes** This is the original prototype from Brecht. I don't have a strong feeling about the black background, but I think the way the attribute name isn't repeated for every axis is really nice {[F9858082](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F9858082/image.png) size=full} Does anyone using the spreadsheet editor not understand the implicit XYZ order of vectors? I don't think we have to include it, and this provides the benefits: - Attributes with long names don't take up way too much space - There are fewer vertical lines, making the editor less noisy - The only lines are between attributes, making it easier to make the distinction further down in the sheet - We don't have the ugly capital X Y Z after the lowercase attribute name : P

Charlie Jolly commented

2021-03-02 00:23:57 +01:00

Added subscriber: @CharlieJolly

Charlie Jolly commented

2021-03-02 00:23:57 +01:00

One thing I can't see on any of the designs is that I'd expect to be able to click a header to sort a column.

Erindale commented

2021-03-02 02:12:53 +01:00

Added subscriber: @Erindale

Erindale commented

2021-03-02 02:12:53 +01:00

Another nice-to-have would be the ability to drag columns to reorder them horizontally. Use case might be if you've created some burner attributes during a calculation and really you just want to focus on your final attributes. Or checking between two calculations and you want to check two specific columns against each other.

I agree with the implicit XYZ too. I think showing "Position X" would lead some people to try calling it as an attribute rather than knowing to separate the Position vector.
Maybe keep all entries to 3 decimal places as well for floats.

Another nice-to-have would be the ability to drag columns to reorder them horizontally. Use case might be if you've created some burner attributes during a calculation and really you just want to focus on your final attributes. Or checking between two calculations and you want to check two specific columns against each other. I agree with the implicit XYZ too. I think showing "Position X" would lead some people to try calling it as an attribute rather than knowing to separate the Position vector. Maybe keep all entries to 3 decimal places as well for floats.

Kenzie commented

2021-03-02 06:06:51 +01:00

Added subscriber: @KenzieMac130

Kenzie commented

2021-03-02 06:06:51 +01:00

In #85654#1121949, @Erindale wrote:
I agree with the implicit XYZ too. I think showing "Position X" would lead some people to try calling it as an attribute rather than knowing to separate the Position vector.

If it becomes necessary to do so however you could do: "position.x" or "position[x]".

> In #85654#1121949, @Erindale wrote: > I agree with the implicit XYZ too. I think showing "Position X" would lead some people to try calling it as an attribute rather than knowing to separate the Position vector. If it becomes necessary to do so however you could do: "position.x" or "position[x]".

Hans Goudey commented

2021-03-02 06:19:19 +01:00

Drag and drop would obviously be nice here, but you can probably also understand why it's not a priority for the initial version.

The sorting thing might not have been mentioned yet, but we will definitely have a triangle for sorting a column, just also not in the initial version.

Drag and drop would obviously be nice here, but you can probably also understand why it's not a priority for the initial version. The sorting thing might not have been mentioned yet, but we will definitely have a triangle for sorting a column, just also not in the initial version.

Brecht Van Lommel commented

2021-03-05 14:50:39 +01:00

Added subscriber: @brecht

Brecht Van Lommel commented

2021-03-05 14:50:39 +01:00

This task doesn't seem to have the latest mockups posted in #geometry-nodes-squad, but will give some feedback anyway:

Like @HooglyBoogly I prefer the header row and reduced vertical lines for vector attributes as in my original patch.
I think there should be more space after the index number. I find it difficult to read the first attribute value, it blends together with the index number too much. Center or right aligning the numbers would be an alternative solution.
Personally I think a header, two sidebars and a statusbar in this spreadsheet editor is too much. In general I think we're adding too many additional bars and overlays in the Blender UI.

This task doesn't seem to have the latest mockups posted in #geometry-nodes-squad, but will give some feedback anyway: * Like @HooglyBoogly I prefer the header row and reduced vertical lines for vector attributes as in my original patch. * I think there should be more space after the index number. I find it difficult to read the first attribute value, it blends together with the index number too much. Center or right aligning the numbers would be an alternative solution. * Personally I think a header, two sidebars and a statusbar in this spreadsheet editor is too much. In general I think we're adding too many additional bars and overlays in the Blender UI.

Dalai Felinto commented

2021-03-08 12:34:07 +01:00

Changed status from 'Needs Triage' to: 'Resolved'

Dalai Felinto closed this issue

2021-03-08 12:34:07 +01:00

Dalai Felinto self-assigned this 2021-03-08 12:34:07 +01:00

Hans Goudey commented

2021-03-08 16:44:44 +01:00

@brecht It may make sense to post that comment in #86279. I do agree with you about your last point.

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Attribute spreadsheet for attribute debugging #85654

Design

Complete Specifications

Minimum Viable Product

Mockup for the MVP

Clarifications