Naming of the "anonymous attribute" concept #91051

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Jacques Lucke · 2021-08-30T11:34:02+02:00

Jacques Lucke commented

2021-08-30 11:34:02 +02:00

"Anonymous attributes" are an important part of what makes the fields proposal so much easier to use compared to what we currently have in master. We have not made a formal decision on what we want to call them in Blender 3.0 yet.
Also, when choosing how to call "anonymous attributes" we should also think about how to call "non-anonymous attributes".

Possible names for "anonymous attributes":

Anonymous attributes: Highlights the fact that one does not have to name these attributes manually.
Static attributes: Highlights the fact that they are only propagated when the geometry changes. Besides propagation they are read-only.
Temporary attributes: Highlights the fact that they are automatically deleted when they are not used anymore.
Scoped attributes: Similar to "temporary attributes".
Internal attributes: Highlights the fact that they will be gone after the current geometry nodes context ends. They cannot be used when sending data to other software.
Unnamed attributes.
Transient attributes.
Local attributes.
Nameless attributes.

Possible names for "non-anonymous attributes":

Named attributes: Highlights the fact that they have to be named explicitly.
Persistent attributes: Highlights the fact that they are not automatically removed.
Dynamic attributes: Highlights the fact that these attributes can be modified by the user at any point.
Interface attributes: Highlights the fact that they can be used to retrieve data from and send data to other systems.

"Anonymous attributes" are an important part of what makes the fields proposal so much easier to use compared to what we currently have in master. We have not made a formal decision on what we want to call them in Blender 3.0 yet. Also, when choosing how to call "anonymous attributes" we should also think about how to call "non-anonymous attributes". Possible names for "anonymous attributes": * Anonymous attributes: Highlights the fact that one does not have to name these attributes manually. * Static attributes: Highlights the fact that they are only propagated when the geometry changes. Besides propagation they are read-only. * Temporary attributes: Highlights the fact that they are automatically deleted when they are not used anymore. * Scoped attributes: Similar to "temporary attributes". * Internal attributes: Highlights the fact that they will be gone after the current geometry nodes context ends. They cannot be used when sending data to other software. * Unnamed attributes. * Transient attributes. * Local attributes. * Nameless attributes. Possible names for "non-anonymous attributes": * Named attributes: Highlights the fact that they have to be named explicitly. * Persistent attributes: Highlights the fact that they are not automatically removed. * Dynamic attributes: Highlights the fact that these attributes can be modified by the user at any point. * Interface attributes: Highlights the fact that they can be used to retrieve data from and send data to other systems.

Jacques Lucke commented

2021-08-30 11:34:02 +02:00

Added subscriber: @JacquesLucke

Hans Goudey commented

2021-08-30 16:40:56 +02:00

Added subscriber: @HooglyBoogly

Hans Goudey commented

2021-08-30 16:40:56 +02:00

Those lists include all the options I've thought of. Personally I like the combination of "Anonymous Attributes" and "Named Attributes".

The fact that anonymous attributes don't propagate outside of the node tree is obvious, because you pass them with node links, which you can only use in the node editor.
The fact that they propagate as the geometry changes is already clear since you can plug them in later on in the node tree-- that's intuitive.
It uses the name-- which is an important step a user takes when creating a named attribute
It's an understandable difference, using words that are clearly understandable. This means the naming will stick, people won't start using shorter/easier names that make conversation less clear.
We've already been using these names, there's something to that!

Those lists include all the options I've thought of. Personally I like the combination of "Anonymous Attributes" and "Named Attributes". - The fact that anonymous attributes don't propagate outside of the node tree is obvious, because you pass them with node links, which you can only use in the node editor. - The fact that they propagate as the geometry changes is already clear since you can plug them in later on in the node tree-- that's intuitive. - It uses the name-- which is an important step a user takes when creating a named attribute - It's an understandable difference, using words that are clearly understandable. This means the naming will stick, people won't start using shorter/easier names that make conversation less clear. - We've already been using these names, there's something to that!

Piotr Adamowicz commented

2021-08-30 19:37:50 +02:00

Added subscriber: @MadMinstrel

Piotr Adamowicz commented

2021-08-30 19:37:50 +02:00

I suggest Transient Attributes. It has a similar meaning as temporary, but is two syllables less and rolls off the tongue much more easily.

Ludvik Koutny commented

2021-09-02 13:55:43 +02:00

Added subscriber: @Rawalanche

Ludvik Koutny commented

2021-09-02 13:55:43 +02:00

My vote would go for Unnamed Attributes and Named Attributes. Majority of the reasoning listed after the names of options is something technical which only someone who understand the internals of geometry nodes will get.

The best way to name something that will be facing the end user in form of the user interface is to think about how would you explain it to someone with 0 prior experience. If someone asks "What does Anonymous Attribute mean?", it's highly likely most people will not use the word "anonymous" to describe their actual mechanism . It will probably be something along the lines "Those are the attributes you create by plugging a node or a tree of nodes inside of an attribute input slot, as opposed to typing the attribute name in it."

So to me, attributes without a name, therefore "unnamed" attributes seems to be the most straightforward term to call them, if you want as wide audience as possible to understand/infer what's being talked about.

That being said, @HooglyBoogly makes a good argument that Anonymous and Unnamed is the terms which are already being used, and they are close enough, so that'd be fine too.

The other names may end up very confusing to people unfamiliar with programming terminology, for example:

Static: May mean something that can not move/can not be animated.
Temporary: May mean something that will disappear at some point without user intervention, something that won't work after reopening file, or such.
Scoped: Someone who isn't familiar with programming may think of a rifle attachment :)
Internal: Something deep inside of the Blender, hidden away from the user, which can't be manipulated easily
Persistent: Something opposing the temporary, making it seem like it's what you want to use if you want to be sure your work is saved (The fake user datablock stigma)
Dynamic: Something opposing the static one, something that can move/can be animated
Interface: Something related to user interface. Sounds like special type of attribute for exposing attributes to the top level modifier UI.

My vote would go for Unnamed Attributes and Named Attributes. Majority of the reasoning listed after the names of options is something technical which only someone who understand the internals of geometry nodes will get. The best way to name something that will be facing the end user in form of the user interface is to think about how would you explain it to someone with 0 prior experience. If someone asks "What does Anonymous Attribute mean?", it's highly likely most people will not use the word "anonymous" to describe their actual mechanism . It will probably be something along the lines "Those are the attributes you create by plugging a node or a tree of nodes inside of an attribute input slot, as opposed to typing the attribute name in it." So to me, attributes without a name, therefore "unnamed" attributes seems to be the most straightforward term to call them, if you want as wide audience as possible to understand/infer what's being talked about. That being said, @HooglyBoogly makes a good argument that Anonymous and Unnamed is the terms which are already being used, and they are close enough, so that'd be fine too. The other names may end up very confusing to people unfamiliar with programming terminology, for example: - Static: May mean something that can not move/can not be animated. - Temporary: May mean something that will disappear at some point without user intervention, something that won't work after reopening file, or such. - Scoped: Someone who isn't familiar with programming may think of a rifle attachment :) - Internal: Something deep inside of the Blender, hidden away from the user, which can't be manipulated easily - Persistent: Something opposing the temporary, making it seem like it's what you want to use if you want to be sure your work is saved (The fake user datablock stigma) - Dynamic: Something opposing the static one, something that can move/can be animated - Interface: Something related to user interface. Sounds like special type of attribute for exposing attributes to the top level modifier UI.

Piotr Adamowicz commented

2021-09-02 14:07:04 +02:00

If it's going to wind up as Unnamed, at least have pity on tutorial makers and pick Nameless. Easier to say.

HEYPictures commented

2021-09-02 16:09:30 +02:00

Added subscriber: @Florian-10

HEYPictures commented

2021-09-02 16:09:30 +02:00

I like "Persistent Attributes" because you can see on the Name what this is.

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Naming of the "anonymous attribute" concept #91051