White Noise(shader) with GN attributes issue #92699

New Issue

Mill Yang · 2021-11-01T06:28:37+01:00

Mill Yang commented

2021-11-01 06:28:37 +01:00

System Information
Operating system: Windows-10-10.0.18362-SP0 64 Bits
Graphics card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti/PCIe/SSE2 NVIDIA Corporation 4.5.0 NVIDIA 471.68

Blender Version
Broken: version: 3.0.0 Beta, branch: master, commit date: 2021-10-27 22:07, hash: b838eaf2b9
Worked:

Short description of error
GN output face "id" can be used as factor for White Noise in a shader.
While in Orthographic view it works as expected, in perspective 3D view it has some issues.
Render is same as viewport (eevee & cycles).

Exact steps for others to reproduce the error

Open attached file
When using Eevee there's a difference between User Perspective (broken) and User Orthographic (not broken) views
Cycles will work correctly in both

Fixed file: white noise with GN attributes1105-fixed.blend

[Original]
white noise with GN attributes.blend

**System Information** Operating system: Windows-10-10.0.18362-SP0 64 Bits Graphics card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti/PCIe/SSE2 NVIDIA Corporation 4.5.0 NVIDIA 471.68 **Blender Version** Broken: version: 3.0.0 Beta, branch: master, commit date: 2021-10-27 22:07, hash: `b838eaf2b9` Worked: **Short description of error** GN output face `"id"` can be used as factor for `White Noise` in a shader. While in Orthographic view it works as expected, in perspective 3D view it has some issues. Render is same as viewport (eevee & cycles). ![GN attributes in whitenoise shader.jpg](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F11652952/GN_attributes_in_whitenoise_shader.jpg) **Exact steps for others to reproduce the error** - Open attached file - When using Eevee there's a difference between User Perspective (broken) and User Orthographic (not broken) views - Cycles will work correctly in both Fixed file: [white noise with GN attributes1105-fixed.blend](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F12494984/white_noise_with_GN_attributes1105-fixed.blend) [Original] [white noise with GN attributes.blend](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F11652648/white_noise_with_GN_attributes.blend)

Mill Yang commented

2021-11-01 06:28:37 +01:00

Added subscriber: @Mill-Yang

blender-admin commented

2021-11-01 06:28:37 +01:00

#93919 was marked as duplicate of this issue

Pratik Borhade commented

2021-11-01 06:46:27 +01:00

Added subscriber: @PratikPB2123

Pratik Borhade commented

2021-11-01 06:46:27 +01:00

Changed status from 'Needs Triage' to: 'Needs User Info'

Pratik Borhade commented

2021-11-01 06:46:27 +01:00

Hi, thanks for the report. I am not able to reproduce this on master: 1e749d0602700f175d70eac75f510512fc3b8b42

Broken: version: 3.0.0 Beta, branch: master, commit date: 2021-10-27 22:07,

Please try again with fresh builds: https://builder.blender.org/download/daily/

Exact steps for others to reproduce the error

Are there any specific steps for reproducing the issue?
Does the issue happen with factory settings? {nav File > Defaults > Load Factory Settings}

(Not sure if this is related to #92652 (Attribute capture causes flickering in render (Geometrynodes))

Hi, thanks for the report. I am not able to reproduce this on master: `1e749d0602700f175d70eac75f510512fc3b8b42` > Broken: version: 3.0.0 Beta, branch: master, commit date: 2021-10-27 22:07, Please try again with fresh builds: https://builder.blender.org/download/daily/ > Exact steps for others to reproduce the error Are there any specific steps for reproducing the issue? Does the issue happen with factory settings? {nav File > Defaults > Load Factory Settings} (Not sure if this is related to #92652 (Attribute capture causes flickering in render (Geometrynodes))

Mill Yang commented

2021-11-01 09:24:54 +01:00

Hi, I tried it with the last build, and rest factory setting.
The issue is still there, and i notice that eevee and cycles' color not match.

test same render, only the 4th setting is clean.
white noise with GN attributes.blend
update the blender file, add a camera and arealight for render. frame 1 is Perspective , frame 2 is Orthographic.

(Not sure if this is related to #92652: Attribute capture causes flickering in render (Geometrynodes)

BTW, I think it's not related Attribute capture. I use Fill Attribut to output the attributes in 2.93.5, and can see the same issue .

Hi, I tried it with the last build, and rest factory setting. The issue is still there, and i notice that eevee and cycles' color not match. ![GN attributes in whitenoise shader_update1.jpg](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F11655316/GN_attributes_in_whitenoise_shader_update1.jpg) test same render, only the 4th setting is clean. [white noise with GN attributes.blend](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F11655382/white_noise_with_GN_attributes.blend) update the blender file, add a camera and arealight for render. frame 1 is Perspective , frame 2 is Orthographic. >(Not sure if this is related to #92652: Attribute capture causes flickering in render (Geometrynodes) BTW, I think it's not related Attribute capture. I use Fill Attribut to output the attributes in 2.93.5, and can see the same issue .

Pratik Borhade commented

2021-11-01 10:30:17 +01:00

Changed status from 'Needs User Info' to: 'Needs Triage'

Pratik Borhade commented

2021-11-01 10:30:17 +01:00

Hi, still I am not able to reproduce with EEVEE.

Sometimes artifacts like this can be fixed by upgrading the driver. Can you please also check that?: https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/3.1/troubleshooting/gpu/windows/nvidia.html

(Also: I can see some changes when switching to Cycles but not quite sure about the reason so I will leave this for others to triage)

System Information

Graphics card : AMD Radeon(TM) 535 ATI Technologies .```

Hi, still I am not able to reproduce with EEVEE. Sometimes artifacts like this can be fixed by upgrading the driver. Can you please also check that?: https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/3.1/troubleshooting/gpu/windows/nvidia.html (Also: I can see some changes when switching to Cycles but not quite sure about the reason so I will leave this for others to triage) --- **System Information** ```Operating system : Windows-10-10.0.18362-SP0 64 Bits Graphics card : AMD Radeon(TM) 535 ATI Technologies .```

Mill Yang commented

2021-11-02 16:24:42 +01:00

Hi, I changed another computer (nvidia RTX 2060, driver is upgraded) , can see the same issue. Maybe the Nvidia card problem?
Sorry for wasting your time, I can't do any more.
And thansks

System Information
Operating system: Windows-10-10.0.19041-SP0 64 Bits
Graphics card: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060/PCIe/SSE2 NVIDIA Corporation 4.5.0 NVIDIA 472.39

Blender Version
Broken: version: 3.1.0 Alpha, branch: master, commit date: 2021-11-01 19:48, hash: 75f5edcaf3

Hi, I changed another computer (nvidia RTX 2060, driver is upgraded) , can see the same issue. Maybe the Nvidia card problem? Sorry for wasting your time, I can't do any more. And thansks --------------------------------- **System Information** Operating system: Windows-10-10.0.19041-SP0 64 Bits Graphics card: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060/PCIe/SSE2 NVIDIA Corporation 4.5.0 NVIDIA 472.39 **Blender Version** Broken: version: 3.1.0 Alpha, branch: master, commit date: 2021-11-01 19:48, hash: `75f5edcaf3`

Germano Cavalcante commented

2021-11-04 15:31:06 +01:00

Added subscriber: @mano-wii

Germano Cavalcante commented

2021-11-04 15:31:06 +01:00

Changed status from 'Needs Triage' to: 'Needs User Info'

Germano Cavalcante commented

2021-11-04 15:31:06 +01:00

I also can't replicate the problem in:
Operating system: Windows-10-10.0.22000-SP0 64 Bits
Graphics card: Radeon (TM) RX 480 Graphics ATI Technologies Inc. 4.5.14760 Core Profile/Debug Context 20.45.37.01 27.20.14537.1001

You said: "Render is same as viewport (eevee & cycles)".
Does this mean that the problem is seen in both Eeeve and Cycles?
If so, it's very unlikely that the problem is GPU-dependent.

Please try the latest daily build: https://builder.blender.org/download/

Go to File → Defaults → Load Factory Settings and then load your file to see if you still can reproduce this issue.

If the problem persists, please give us more clear instructions on how to reproduce it from scratch.

I also can't replicate the problem in: **Operating system:** Windows-10-10.0.22000-SP0 64 Bits **Graphics card:** Radeon (TM) RX 480 Graphics ATI Technologies Inc. 4.5.14760 Core Profile/Debug Context 20.45.37.01 27.20.14537.1001 You said: "Render is same as viewport (eevee & cycles)". Does this mean that the problem is seen in both Eeeve and Cycles? If so, it's very unlikely that the problem is GPU-dependent. Please try the latest daily build: https://builder.blender.org/download/ Go to File → Defaults → Load Factory Settings and then load your file to see if you still can reproduce this issue. If the problem persists, please give us more clear instructions on how to reproduce it from scratch.

Mill Yang commented

2021-11-05 08:55:55 +01:00

I tested the lastest daily build and use the Factory setting . Still can see the problem .

Oh , I find the problem!

Create a plane, in edit mode ,duplicate the face(one or two times).

2.Create Geometry Nodes on the plane, use Capture Attribute output the face index, name it as 'id' in modify panel.

3.In Spreadsheet we can see the 'id' have two number(0 and 1 or more) for the separate face in 'Vertex' domain.

Give plane a material , set the shader like the append blendr file.
Now we can see the issue on the duplicated faces in viewport .
Back to Geometry Node, insert a "Add Math" node before the output Attribute . Add more then 1 value, now the every face show the issue.

Maybe the output attribute value bigger then 1 makes the issue.

white noise with GN attributes1105.blend

I tested the lastest daily build and use the Factory setting . Still can see the problem . Oh , I find the problem! 1. Create a plane, in edit mode ,duplicate the face(one or two times). 2.Create Geometry Nodes on the plane, use Capture Attribute output the face index, name it as 'id' in modify panel. 3.In Spreadsheet we can see the 'id' have two number(0 and 1 or more) for the separate face in 'Vertex' domain. 4. Give plane a material , set the shader like the append blendr file. 5. Now we can see the issue on the duplicated faces in viewport . 6. Back to Geometry Node, insert a "Add Math" node before the output Attribute . Add more then 1 value, now the every face show the issue. Maybe the output attribute value bigger then 1 makes the issue. ![GN attributes in whitenoise shader_update2.jpg](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F11726617/GN_attributes_in_whitenoise_shader_update2.jpg) [white noise with GN attributes1105.blend](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F11726553/white_noise_with_GN_attributes1105.blend)

Germano Cavalcante commented

2021-11-05 15:55:04 +01:00

Changed status from 'Needs User Info' to: 'Needs Triage'

Jesse Yurkovich commented

2021-11-27 23:35:16 +01:00

Added subscriber: @deadpin

Jesse Yurkovich commented

2021-11-27 23:35:16 +01:00

Changed status from 'Needs Triage' to: 'Confirmed'

Jesse Yurkovich commented

2021-11-27 23:35:16 +01:00

I am able to confirm this issue using Eevee and after making some modifications to the file to correct a few things. I'll modify the repro steps in the next message.
Changes required:

The Attribute needs to be set to the "Face" domain since the attributes were captured from Faces. It was set incorrectly to Point and that caused issues even with Cycles
The 'id' name is reserved and shouldn't be used as it will result in incorrect usage as well.

I am able to confirm this issue using Eevee and after making some modifications to the file to correct a few things. I'll modify the repro steps in the next message. Changes required: - The Attribute needs to be set to the "Face" domain since the attributes were captured from Faces. It was set incorrectly to Point and that caused issues even with Cycles - The 'id' name is reserved and shouldn't be used as it will result in incorrect usage as well.

Jacques Lucke commented

2021-12-10 13:23:12 +01:00

Added subscriber: @JacquesLucke

Jacques Lucke commented

2021-12-10 13:23:12 +01:00

I think this issue has nothing to do with the Mesh Island node. Instead I guess that it is caused by floating point inaccuracies when the attribute is interpolated across the surface. Even though it is an integer attribute, eevee and cycles probably handle it as float internally. The white noise node is extremely sensitive to very small changes in the input. So even if the lowest significant bit of the float changes, the output color of the white noise node changes.

I think that is more a known issue than a bug. Here is how the issue could be resolved:

Avoid doing any math operations on the attribute value to interpolate it across the surface. This means that the attribute domain should be set to "Face".
Don't use a node that is as sensitive to input changes as the White Noise texture. For example the normal Noise node with a large scale value would have the same effect as the White Noise texture here, but it would still be less sensitive to changes because points that are very close to each other have very similar noise values. Note that a 1D noise should be used for best performance.

I wasn't able to reproduce the issue in eevee, or at least I didn't see it. Not sure if the same solutions apply there.

I think this issue has nothing to do with the Mesh Island node. Instead I guess that it is caused by floating point inaccuracies when the attribute is interpolated across the surface. Even though it is an integer attribute, eevee and cycles probably handle it as float internally. The white noise node is extremely sensitive to very small changes in the input. So even if the lowest significant bit of the float changes, the output color of the white noise node changes. I think that is more a known issue than a bug. Here is how the issue could be resolved: * Avoid doing any math operations on the attribute value to interpolate it across the surface. This means that the attribute domain should be set to "Face". * Don't use a node that is as sensitive to input changes as the White Noise texture. For example the normal Noise node with a large scale value would have the same effect as the White Noise texture here, but it would still be less sensitive to changes because points that are very close to each other have very similar noise values. Note that a 1D noise should be used for best performance. I wasn't able to reproduce the issue in eevee, or at least I didn't see it. Not sure if the same solutions apply there. ![image.png](https://archive.blender.org/developer/F12727000/image.png)

Hans Goudey commented

2021-12-10 17:56:56 +01:00

Added subscribers: @Bradley_G, @CharlieJolly, @HooglyBoogly

Philipp Oeser removed the

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White Noise(shader) with GN attributes issue #92699