Thanks for confirming Campbell. And also for the before and after comparisons. I didn't have a build from before to compare with. --- Agree, It makes it very distracting when working on dense meshes trying to select through.

Can confirm. Happening on Blender-2.80 546e20f5a2c0-Win64. Extrude Shortcut/Tool doesn't "Extrude" (duplicate & move) face(s) as usual. But acts more like a proportional edit + move action. Proportional Editing Strength is force-set to 1.00 under Extrude settings?

In rB4c63ea2bc8e34741419d58890ac203d6393a001d#205954, @Brecht Van Lommel (brecht) wrote:

Alternative proposal:

• Z pie menu with the 4 shading modes in 4 main directions.
• Shift+Z toggles X-Ray
• Alt+Z toggles overlays
• D for annotation and draw brushes

Hi Campbell. Love the initiative for giving users more options to easily access the switching of keymap functions which would otherwise be quite intimidating and time consuming to change within the Hotkey Editor itself. :)

+1 For a more, 'Centered' Horizontal-Strip Design. Will definitely save a lot of screen real-estate and remove that big black block from obstructing your work in the background. :) Right now, working with the Redo Panel is a bit cumbersome due to 2 things.

In T56649#537880, @Zino Guerr (Zino) wrote:

now u guys changed it again.. Solid/wireframes should be one toggle on the pie menu, and X-Ray toggle for Wireframe and solid...just want to ensure we can have x-ray off in wireframe mode :)

Did a quick mock-up. What do you guys think about this? Does it make sense? :)

In T56649#537266, @Julien Kaspar (JulienKaspar) wrote:

Shouldn't it rather be next to the shading popup since they are related and more xray settings can be found in that popup? But then there needs be some clear separation from the mode buttons since it could easily be misunderstood as its own shading mode.
If the toggle is placed way over to the left instead I think it's easy to not make the connection to the xray settings in the shading options. People will assume that it's two settings like before.

This is something I can understand and also relate to. William:

Thanks for implementing this Brecht. Can't know how we could improve this further unless we give it a try and see. :)

@Campbell Barton (campbellbarton) Aye. The new Tool-tips & Redo Panel with Pop-over panel styling looks A+. Functional, Sleek and 0 Flickering. Thanks man. Now my OCD can rest for a bit. :) Would be really awesome if we could move the Redo panel around the viewport and place it where it's most convenient for use. I think that was the plan yeah? (Next to integrating it into the Properties Editor > Tools Tab.) --- Have a great week Campbell. Can't wait to see what new goodies you've got for us this week. :)

In T56510#533637, @William Reynish (billreynish) wrote:

Well, that’s also the point. It could include other input devices here also.

In T56510#533635, @William Reynish (billreynish) wrote:

Updated - changed name to Input Device.

In T56510#533616, @William Reynish (billreynish) wrote:

It could be called Select With, but it's not a completely accurate descriptive of how the left click select feature will work in 2.8. It really means 'favour left click for both selection and tools' or something like that.

@William Reynish (billreynish) +1. Setup Screen looks good! :) What do you think of using something other than Input for primary mouse-click? The term Input generally is inclusive for mouse + keyboard input (Hotkeys). Maybe just Mouse, Mouse-Click or Selection? In Blender User Prefs. It's under 'Select With'. Just a thought.

@Campbell Barton (campbellbarton) Ah, Ok. That makes sense. It was a bit noticeable when moving the cursor from one tool to another. And on dual-column icons with mouse movement the blinking becomes quite erratic. Just thought I'd let you know. Thanks for clarifying. :)

@Campbell Barton (campbellbarton) Hey Campbell. Really liking the new Layered Quick-Tooltips for the Active Tools. The misalignment was driving some of us nuts. Thanks for fixing that. :) Small suggestion. Noticed a little inconsistency in the tooltip outline animation. It goes a bit like this;

Yeah, Noticed this too when I restored to factory settings. It's been like this since last week. Somehow the default cube has got triangulated.

@TheRedWaxPolice (TheRedWaxPolice) wrote:

About the contextual menu (W), I wish we could customize it's items, so we could fill it with the most used tools of each mode.

Finally! This is definitely gonna open up a big can of flaming worms on Left vs. Right. :) --- +1 for a much more "Thought-out" Left-Click Select as Default. But, with an easy switch for people who want to use Right-Click. So no functionality is taken away from veteran users who painstakingly got used to it over the years.

@Michael Benoist (gopper0815) Glad we could help Michael. :) @William Reynish (billreynish) Oh, William. When will this teasing for the ISK (Industry Standard Keymap) end mate? :D Listening to you talk about it functionally almost everyday, I really can't wait to start using it! >Insert Pls Gib ISK Emote< :)

You're welcome bud. Welcome to Blender 2.80. The Future. Enjoy! :) --- Btw, please make sure to use this site strictly for reporting bugs and crashes. Right now only crashes are prioritized so if ever Blender 2.8 crashes on you, don't forget to report it. You can use the DevTalk Forum to make queries + other discussions and Right-Click Select to make proposals/suggestions and vote up others.

Then when i go i editmode i make my selection. Then i hit tab and choose any transform mode (grab/scale/rotate) and do the action. But then, i can`t select any vertex/edge or face. I must go out of transform-mode, for example to 3d cursor and make a new selection.

User Preferences was moved under Edit Menu in 2.80. Also no hotkey has been assigned. Alternatively you can hit F4 for the Window Context Menu and access User Prefs. from there.

Makes sense. I was trying to copy/paste some annotations/notes from one annotation layer to another when it crashed. Thought I'd report it. Hope this helps.

Ah, okay. So that's what you meant by combining. Making them both work the same way. Nice. :)

Blender 2.8 had, from the beginning, the concept of updating our visual viewport and workflow so that we no longer need to use Wireframe mode to work normally.

Personally the biggest turn-off for me as a modeler when trying to use X-Ray mode was 2 things.

@vikrant singh (vikrantsingh47) Hi Vikrant, It's currently not bound to any shortcuts for the default 2.8 (minimal) keymap. You'll have to manually create/bind it in the input settings.

@Brecht Van Lommel (brecht) Hey Brecht. There's a lot of fuss about the General workspace being replaced. And Modeling with No Timeline, being the new Default. Since that's the first thing a new user sees when they launch Blender. Argument is, it's better to have timeline available rather than having to specifically switch to an animation workspace. So a new or existing user who wants to do some quick animation can do so in the default workspace, without the hassle of switching to a dedicated animation layout. (which can also visually look complex for someone starting out or un-necessary if you just wanna do quick animations in viewport.)

In T56510#529860, @William Reynish (billreynish) wrote:

Updated mockup to include suggestions from Matias & Antonio

Really like the 1st mock-up. Everything looks nicely compartmentalized into their own block sections. Also, visually communicates the different templates with their own respective thumbnails (easy to click), etc. Looks more Modern too. :) Main thing it does well is, it visually communicates each section clearly. I think that's important on a Splash Screen. For example in an Image/Video Editor. If you have a splash/startup/new project screen with thumbnail versions of different layouts/templates vs a list version of them. The thumbnails easily win. Clear and Distinguishable. Even for someone who finds it difficult to read. (Language, Poor Eye-sight, Screen Size, Etc.)

@William Reynish (billreynish) Agreed on all points. And I think that's the same as what @xrg (xrg) was trying to convey too. Point of Active-Tools/Widgets should be to use LMB-Click to Select (for tools that need selection first, like bevel, extrude, inset, etc.) and then Click > Drag > Release to Manipulate that selection via the selected tool or an on-screen manipulator and compliment that with pop-ups/widget panels (Options/Values/Sliders) that appear under or close to manipulator or mouse pointer. (I know you guys are working on manipulators & widget panels for the tools so super excited for when those get committed.)

I guess right now the simple way to have the best of both worlds in Blender (which is the current setup anyway) is to have Select = LMB and Active-Tool = RMB. And vice versa if you use RMB to Select.

In T55036#529668, @William Reynish (billreynish) wrote:

Ok, that could be a bug/mistake. This kind of thing can happen if we mix 'action mouse' and 'left mouse'. When the user then switches to LMB select, only the action mouse events are flipped, which can cause conflicts.

@William Reynish (billreynish) Hi, Thanks William for the info. Appreciate it. :)

@Campbell Barton (campbellbarton) @William Reynish (billreynish) Hi Guys, Amazing updates on the Tools Systems & Icons so far. Thanks for ALL the hard work. :) Really love the new Click > Drag > Release method for the Active Tools. Would be awesome if we could have the same functionality on the operations when invoked via Shortcut too. Because I noticed that the action hasn't changed for those. (Yet)

@Campbell Barton (campbellbarton) Hey Campbell. Just checked out the list of 2.8 keymap changes. Looks pretty good. :) Think it would be good to mention both instances of Playback Animation? --- Playback Animation (Fwd): Shift + Spacebar / Playback Animation (Bwd): Shift + Ctrl + Spacebar

@Campbell Barton (campbellbarton) Hi Campbell. I know this is archived but I wanted to try and find a fix for the issue. And I think I did. :) Re-Assigning the default material to the object that becomes invisible after dropping a bone into the scene seems to fix the issue. Tabbing In/Out of Edit Mode and Selecting another object doesn't seem to cause it to go invisible again like before. Here's a video with the step-by-step.

@Finn Lukas Heinemann (finn) Hi Finn. This was fixed by Brecht. 39b1842335c8 It should be in next compile of 2.8.

@Campbell Barton (campbellbarton) Yeah, it's all good man. It's why I opened the task as **Low* Priority. Just wanted to report my findings for when it's more widely reproducible. Later if this starts happening more obviously, then we'll always have some data to refer back to. Doesn't really affect my work since I don't use armatures much. Still, thought I should report it and let you guys know about it. :) There was another user who reported invisible objects in viewport. But that was from a fresh scene, nothing to do with bones being added. Maybe it's a Windows OS thing. Anyway, I'm sure this might fix itself as more compatibility code is added for openGL and graphics drivers. If not, we can always come back to it later. Cheers 'n Thanks again for looking into it.

@Campbell Barton (campbellbarton) Here you go. :) Also, it seems to happen the same with today's compile. 1112f49 Open the file in 2.8 and click on one of the other objects. The 1st Mesh Object 'Cube' goes invis. Changing rendering modes, toggling x-ray seems to fix it. But select 1st object and toggle edit mode and click something else, it happens again.

@James Prakash J C (Artstallion) Hi James, In the new Blender 2.8 keymap, Shift + C > Center Cursor and View All function is not-bound by default. You can find it here. (View > Align View > Center Cursor and View All) --- Feel free to Right-Click > Add Shortcut > Shift + C --- You can also use Shift + S > Cursor to Center.

@Davide Prestino (Dprestino) Hi David, Can you confirm if you have Shift + C bound to 'Center Cursor and View All'? In the new Blender 2.8 keymap, this function is not-bound by default. You can find it here. (View > Align View > Center Cursor and View All) If you have it bound to Shift + C or any hotkey, I can confirm the cursor will reset to 0,0,0. --- You can also use Shift + S > Cursor to Center. --- As for zeroing out the values for 3D Cursor (XYZ) in 'Sidebar' (N) Panel. Not updating in the viewport. I too can confirm that it doesn't work. Hope this narrows the bug down to just the sidebar values not working properly. :)

@Campbell Barton (campbellbarton) Yeah. It's all good man. :) This is in no way one of those "Fix This Now!!!" requests. I can imagine how much work it will take to have a Keymap system like that, with difference scanning, selective resetting and selective updating, etc. Since we are discussing about keymap changes and also this seemed the most direct place to share this idea with you guys. I hope it's something we can work towards in the future. :)

Good morning everyone. :) Small issue I'm facing. I'm trying to maintain a custom hotkey preset separate from the new default. So whenever the default is being changed/updated (which is the whole point of this task: T55162), I wouldn't have to keep changing back certain/most keys I've setup for my personal workflow. Here's what I noted.

@Orustam Manapov (orustammanapov) I understand where you're coming from. Even for me, I still have to consciously remind myself to use the 'Blender' part of my brain to do certain things differently from the way my brain has been conditioned using other software for years. :) But at the same time, everything that's discussed in this task is about the 'Blender Keymap Changes'. So it will naturally follow the Blender hotkeys and how to simplify them but still keep them familiar enough for newer & older Blender users alike. They are also working on a more 'Industry Standard Hotkey Preset'. And that focuses on everything you said. Ctrl + A to Select All, Left-Click to Select, Click-Drag to Box Select, Etc.

Also +1. No to 'Backspace' as another delete. Just a waste of a key and completely pointless. Takes away the whole purpose of a 'Default Minimal Keymap'. I think 'X' for 'Workflow' and 'Delete' for 'Standard' is reasons enough.

In T55162#515801, @Campbell Barton (campbellbarton) wrote:

How do you prevent the press event from being used before the drag event activates?

I was just messing around with the hotkey list and came across something interesting. Switching Tab key from Click to Press for Toggling into Edit Mode suddenly made it seem much 'Snappier'. Even Tab + Mouse-Drag for Mode Select Pie feels much more responsive. That micro lag/stutter that used to happen occasionally seems to be gone? Idk, maybe it's just me and some placebo. :)

Hi Guys, Do you guys think Select Less/Select More is worthy of making it into the Default Minimal Keymap? It's a quite useful tool in modeling workflows. Especially when you have to quickly make growing selections/de-selections in dense meshes. I love how freeing the new minimal keymap is, letting us users map whichever keys we are comfortable with. :)

Can confirm. Happens on latest commit as well.

@Patrick (patnard) Hi Patrick. This shortcut has been removed for the new 'Default' (2.8 Minimal Keymap) initiative. Feel free to re-add it as I have too. :)

1. The Ruler Tool does exactly what it says. Measure distance/length between two points. :) (If using Left-Click Select) Click-Drag with Right-Click and it will create a ruler with 2-points in 3d view. Use left-click drag to move each point. Ctrl to snap, left-click once in a point to delete, etc.

Hi Guys, Was going through the new 'Minimal Keymap' and I'm really liking the changes so far. I know it's a process to Tweak 'n Perfect it, but seems like slowly we're getting there. :)

@Andrea Coppola (blenderhighschool) Hi Andrea. Clay Render Engine was removed from the Render Settings Panel some time ago. It has since been Integrated/Moved into the 'Shading Menu' within the 3D Viewport.

@Campbell Barton (campbellbarton) Hi Campbell, noticed a small typo. Shouldn't this be, "Outliner Item Drag & Drop Modal Map"? :)

In T54951#513767, @ronan ducluzeau (zeauro) wrote:

Another point in favor of centered labels. The shape defined by negative space is quickly changed if editor width is resized.
With centered labels, a mirrored pattern would be kept until you reach the limit of smaller label that would be a more obvious reference.

In T54951#513772, @Lucas Boutrot (thornydre) wrote:

Someone posted a solution on Right Click Select that I find quite convenient acutally https://blender.community/c/rightclickselect/cJbbbc/

In T54951#513680, @Dalai Felinto (dfelinto) wrote:

I second what @Campbell Barton (campbellbarton) said. And to be fair I tried with decorators for checkboxes and it doesn't look bad, even though the decorator is far from the checkbox:

Full disclosure: In this example I also removed all the separators in the layout. Since I believe they add noise, but that's a separated discussion.

@Campbell Barton (campbellbarton) Cool. That's awesome to hear man. Can't wait to try it out. :)

Agreed. I too think it's a smart idea to keep both.

@Campbell Barton (campbellbarton) @William Reynish (billreynish) Hope you guys are having a good weekend. :)

@Jeroen Bakker (jbakker) Hi Jeroen. Thanks for all the hard work you've put into the workbench engine and viewport. Awesome stuff! :)

In T55386#511818, @pistol ioan (pistoltoto) wrote:

Just to be able to flip the bar like we used to have before to the other bars

@YAFU (YAFU) Yeah. I wasn't trying to deny his thoughts regarding the top bar, but there are still a lot of users who haven't realized everything that is in the Top Bar and the Tool Settings panel (2.79) can also be found in the new Tool Settings Tab in the properties panel . :)

One more reason why top toolbar needs to be customizable as in a scenario where an artist wants to sculpt in a window and have something else in another window, he will be constrained to move with the mouse on top just to change the settings for his brush, so will become an unnecessary effort.

And you can't force him to sculpt on top side because in this way the windows customization will become useless.